Madeleine McCann

[Herlock Sholmes]

I see the Home Office have granted another £300,000 for the investigation.

What an absolute racket.

As I’ve said before, I know zilch about this case, but I have to say that it’s simply bizarre that with all the missing children cases and unsolved crimes why does there appear to be an almost bottomless pit of funding for this case?Every half decent person on the planet would love for her to turn up safe and well but this is increasingly unlikely now. According to Harry’s post #1069, which I’ve no reason to doubt, this takes the money spent on this case over the £13,000,000 mark!

[Paddy]

If I wanted to preserve a body I would bury her in dry sand ?

[WallaceWackedHer]

The McCanns are literally PROFITING off of their daughters disappearance/death. Their "charity" is actually not a charity, it's registered as a company. Gerry used fund money to make mortgage payments on his mansion. It's become big business.

There has also been a free offer from a scientist in America to examine the inconclusive DNA evidence to offer 100% proof of who the DNA belongs to. This offer has not been accepted. He doesn't even need the samples, just the computerized data.

I have no doubt the parents drugged their kids with sleeping meds. This doesn't mean that's what killed Maddie, but it may have contributed to her and the other children not waking up, and they may feel guilty about this (e.g. what might have happened if Maddie had awoken and screamed in the presence of an intruder?)... Kate's other children slept through the night, despite police etc. being on the scene, Kate yelling in the same room in distress, etc.

It could also have contributed to an accidental death via overdose, if both parents had given a dose thinking the other had forgotten OR inadvertently, if she was on tranquilizers which have muscle relaxant effects (such as Valium - overdosing Valium would be extremely difficult) and fell behind the couch while reaching to the window to try and look out for her parents. I have not fully gone into this case, the files are all on the web for this one and it's encyclopedic to say the least. But from what I recall of my brief foray into the McCann case, it looked like that had happened.

Physical evidence suggests that Madeleine McCann is more than likely dead, and also that she had died inside the apartment.

By the way, forensic statement analysists have also concluded that Madeleine died in the apartment by accident and the parents covered it up (probably so the twins wouldn't be taken away). They also suggested Kate or the children may have been sexually abused, although they don't believe the two things are related.

I heard a rumour that the McCanns tried to give Maddie away a year or so before the disappearance. I wonder if she was perhaps a bit ADHD and they found her difficult to deal with and turned to drugging her etc. or shook her or w.e. in a moment of outburst. But that's pure and utter speculation. I don't know if that factoid is true or a terrible rumour.

[Abby Normal]

If I wanted to preserve a body I would bury her in dry sand ?

maybe-or throw her in the ocean

[mpriestnall]

https://www.richplanet.net/richp_genre_menu.php?gen=99

Search: Mccann

[Abby Normal]

The McCanns are literally PROFITING off of their daughters disappearance/death. Their "charity" is actually not a charity, it's registered as a company. Gerry used fund money to make mortgage payments on his mansion. It's become big business.

There has also been a free offer from a scientist in America to examine the inconclusive DNA evidence to offer 100% proof of who the DNA belongs to. This offer has not been accepted. He doesn't even need the samples, just the computerized data.

I have no doubt the parents drugged their kids with sleeping meds. This doesn't mean that's what killed Maddie, but it may have contributed to her and the other children not waking up, and they may feel guilty about this (e.g. what might have happened if Maddie had awoken and screamed in the presence of an intruder?)... Kate's other children slept through the night, despite police etc. being on the scene, Kate yelling in the same room in distress, etc.

It could also have contributed to an accidental death via overdose, if both parents had given a dose thinking the other had forgotten OR inadvertently, if she was on tranquilizers which have muscle relaxant effects (such as Valium - overdosing Valium would be extremely difficult) and fell behind the couch while reaching to the window to try and look out for her parents. I have not fully gone into this case, the files are all on the web for this one and it's encyclopedic to say the least. But from what I recall of my brief foray into the McCann case, it looked like that had happened.

Physical evidence suggests that Madeleine McCann is more than likely dead, and also that she had died inside the apartment.

By the way, forensic statement analysists have also concluded that Madeleine died in the apartment by accident and the parents covered it up (probably so the twins wouldn't be taken away). They also suggested Kate or the children may have been sexually abused, although they don't believe the two things are related.

I heard a rumour that the McCanns tried to give Maddie away a year or so before the disappearance. I wonder if she was perhaps a bit ADHD and they found her difficult to deal with and turned to drugging her etc. or shook her or w.e. in a moment of outburst. But that's pure and utter speculation. I don't know if that factoid is true or a terrible rumour.

yes yes yes! totally agree Wallace.

and re your last point-there is a taped interview-where the parents are talking about her birth and said something like-and we had this beautiful baby, and then she opened her mouth and then the whole world knew. It was meant in a negative way, eventhough they said it half jokingly-and clear that it meant she was loud and that they didn't like it. and in that context-being interviewed about your "missing" child, what parent would say something like that? to me, it seems, as you say, they were frustrated by her, not only generally, but specifically because she was a handful.

[WallaceWackedHer]

There's a post on a Facebook group (which has criminally disabled copy and pasting it seems, so I can't post it here), that based on six independent eye witness reports, the alarm for the disappearance was actually raised earlier to locals at around 9.20, rather than 10 PM, and that a voice calling for Madeleine was heard at 9.15 by Stephen Carpenter and his wife.

It would appear Gerry was seen running around the private pool and play areas as though searching for someone at 9.30 to 9.40. A man asked if he should go for help and Gerry agreed.

The Smithman sighting is at 9.55 PM. It would appear the time of Maddie's vanishing was pushed forward by the T9 for reasons unknown, with a couple of extra "checks" added in... IIRC their propoganda man Clarence Mitchell said they had no watches or phones at the Tapas bar, so then exactly how a bunch of drunken louts were able to stick to a strict routine of checks precisely every 30 minutes is uncertain, even if there was a visible clock at the bar, given they were getting toasted etc.

With Gerry running around play areas and the pool where the children had been, that would seem like a genuine search. And with some evidence to indicate Maddie may have fallen behind the sofa, which I believe is nearly up against the wall, I see some chance that the parents initially believed Maddie to be missing since they called for her in the apartment and got no answer, and behind the couch against the wall is an odd place to check.

Potentially they then later found her dead body behind the couch? I don't know if cadaver dogs also alert to dead animal scents, but if so that could be the flowerbed alert.

I would really need to get into the case more to come up with any bright ideas. But it would apparently seem from the independent eye witnesses that it goes: Maddie found missing > Real search for Maddie > Smithman (believed by the witness to be Gerry) seen carrying a child > Fake timing of the alarm being raised reported by T9 in subsequent statements.

I have also seen that records of calls were selectively deleted by Gerry and Kate off of their phones. The excuse for this was poor, and when questioned in a televised interview about incoming SMS messages Gerry was visibly shook, started stuttering, and Kate had to finish his sentence.

[Abby Normal]

There's a post on a Facebook group (which has criminally disabled copy and pasting it seems, so I can't post it here), that based on six independent eye witness reports, the alarm for the disappearance was actually raised earlier to locals at around 9.20, rather than 10 PM, and that a voice calling for Madeleine was heard at 9.15 by Stephen Carpenter and his wife.

It would appear Gerry was seen running around the private pool and play areas as though searching for someone at 9.30 to 9.40. A man asked if he should go for help and Gerry agreed.

The Smithman sighting is at 9.55 PM. It would appear the time of Maddie's vanishing was pushed forward by the T9 for reasons unknown, with a couple of extra "checks" added in... IIRC their propoganda man Clarence Mitchell said they had no watches or phones at the Tapas bar, so then exactly how a bunch of drunken louts were able to stick to a strict routine of checks precisely every 30 minutes is uncertain, even if there was a visible clock at the bar, given they were getting toasted etc.

With Gerry running around play areas and the pool where the children had been, that would seem like a genuine search. And with some evidence to indicate Maddie may have fallen behind the sofa, which I believe is nearly up against the wall, I see some chance that the parents initially believed Maddie to be missing since they called for her in the apartment and got no answer, and behind the couch against the wall is an odd place to check.

Potentially they then later found her dead body behind the couch? I don't know if cadaver dogs also alert to dead animal scents, but if so that could be the flowerbed alert.

I would really need to get into the case more to come up with any bright ideas. But it would apparently seem from the independent eye witnesses that it goes: Maddie found missing > Real search for Maddie > Smithman (believed by the witness to be Gerry) seen carrying a child > Fake timing of the alarm being raised reported by T9 in subsequent statements.

I have also seen that records of calls were selectively deleted by Gerry and Kate off of their phones. The excuse for this was poor, and when questioned in a televised interview about incoming SMS messages Gerry was visibly shook, started stuttering, and Kate had to finish his sentence.

hi Wallace
interesting. I had never heard of the previous searching thing. I would just caution that witness timings are notoriously uncertain.
that being said-this scenario if purely an accident, why cover it up and get rid of her body? unless of course her falling behind the couch/death had also something to do with the parents dosing/overdosing her? which I assume your scenario includes? which a cover up would then make sense.

[WallaceWackedHer]

hi Wallace
interesting. I had never heard of the previous searching thing. I would just caution that witness timings are notoriously uncertain.
that being said-this scenario if purely an accident, why cover it up and get rid of her body? unless of course her falling behind the couch/death had also something to do with the parents dosing/overdosing her? which I assume your scenario includes? which a cover up would then make sense.

I am sure they were doped. All you have to do is look at the fact the twins slept through the commotion (including their mother screaming, crying, and smashing headboards in the same room), and that Madeleine may have slept through her own abduction.

Did the doping enter their mind? I am not sure. But negligence would definitely be at the forefront of their mind at the very least, and that puts at risk their custody of the twins. I am dubious of the half hourly check system. It also seemed weird to me that a different family's child in the T9 was "sick" each day, apparently for just one day each, but I don't know enough to speculate why that might be falsified.

Other witness timings are uncertain, but you have to give some weight to it when there are 6 others. And HOW much time is feasible someone could be off by. If I could post the full timeline it would be so much better. I can't believe they've disabled copy paste...

Jeronimo Salcedas is the one who said he saw Gerry rushing around the play areas and private pool around half 9. Arlindo Peleja says it was 9.20 when the alarm was raised in the tapas bar. Just as examples. They are on the public case files.

Those in the know can come to their own conclusions. I'd also like to see what they think of the selectively deleted call logs.

[Abby Normal]

I am sure they were doped. All you have to do is look at the fact the twins slept through the commotion (including their mother screaming, crying, and smashing headboards in the same room), and that Madeleine may have slept through her own abduction.

Did the doping enter their mind? I am not sure. But negligence would definitely be at the forefront of their mind at the very least, and that puts at risk their custody of the twins. I am dubious of the half hourly check system. It also seemed weird to me that a different family's child in the T9 was "sick" each day, apparently for just one day each, but I don't know enough to speculate why that might be falsified.

Other witness timings are uncertain, but you have to give some weight to it when there are 6 others. And HOW much time is feasible someone could be off by. If I could post the full timeline it would be so much better. I can't believe they've disabled copy paste...

Jeronimo Salcedas is the one who said he saw Gerry rushing around the play areas and private pool around half 9. Arlindo Peleja says it was 9.20 when the alarm was raised in the tapas bar. Just as examples. They are on the public case files.

Those in the know can come to their own conclusions. I'd also like to see what they think of the selectively deleted call logs.

thanks Wallace.
I think maddy died/murdered in that apartment sometime between the time she was picked up at the daycare and they went to dinner by one or both of the parents. either intentionally by physical abuse or "accidently" by overdosing her with a sleep aid/setative. Jerry then carried her somewhere and dumped her, probably the ocean. they both covered it up and staged the scene with the open window and then went to dinner, probably with the intent of hoping someone else discovered her "missing" during the checks. when that didn't happened Kate finally went and we know the rest.

[JeffHamm]

This is an interesting side development.

The headline reads "Former cop who slammed Madeleine McCann's parents in Netflix doc is jailed for planning violent break-ins".

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/new...ectid=12292037

- Jeff

[caz]

Hi All,

Does anyone know what caused the police to look at Robert Murat in the early days of the investigation? He was later cleared of all suspicion, but was there a known connection between Murat and the McCanns before Madeleine was first reported missing? Or did Murat only get involved after the event, to offer his help to the parents? I'd love to know what was being said over the various parties' mobile phones during that evening, but it does seem like the records are incomplete or otherwise unavailable.

I have a tenuous but odd connection to the case, because in 2014 we moved house and soon learned that our new home here in East Devon had belonged to Robert Murat's mother, who inherited it from her mother [a widow coincidentally called Madeleine] when she died in 2006. I did read that Murat had returned to the UK in late 2006 to renovate the house, which makes sense if his mother planned to sell it. But I don't think he could have done much if any renovating before returning to Portugal, because when his mother sold it to the people we bought it from, they had to modernise it from top to bottom and make it look good, because they had bought it to "do up" and rent out. It was built around 1903 and we know from our survey that much of the work done since 2006 was cosmetic, with some major issues left outstanding. Consequently I was able to knock quite a bit off the asking price and we are very happy here. The top end of our back garden was the only untouched bit when we moved in, sadly neglected I should think since the death of Murat's grandmother. It was a complete jungle, with weeds and brambles as tall as myself, growing back each summer until we finally tackled it in 2017, when my mother-in-law passed away and I no longer had to care for her. It is now a pretty patio area and sun trap, where we can sit out on summer evenings and I can forget my previous morbid imaginings about what we might have found buried beneath...

We still occasionally get junk mail from Portugal, addressed to Robert Murat, so Madeleine is often in my thoughts.

Love,

Caz
X

[JeffHamm]

My understanding is that he only became of interest to the police because he seemed too eager to help despite having no apparent connection with the McCann's. The police then felt he may be trying to inject himself into the case, etc.

- Jeff

[caz]

Cheers Jeff. That would make sense. IIRC, Murat is bilingual, in which case he may have tried to help with any initial communication problems between the McCanns, the police and the staff at the holiday complex.

Infamous cases, which were bungled, unsolved, or not fully resolved, seem to follow me and my family around. Back in 1978 I was living in Essex and had to consult my GP in Coggeshall for a torn eardrum. Five years later, in 1983, the doctor with the worst bedside manner I have ever encountered, was suspected of murdering his third wife, Diane Jones, who disappeared following an argument in a pub. He didn't report her missing for another nine days, and she was found dead in a copse three months later. Insufficient evidence against the GP.

When I lived in Surrey, my daughter was at school with Meredith Kercher, the university student who was brutally murdered in Italy in 2007. In happier times I often passed Meredith's father on my walk to work and we would exchange a cheery "hello".

Shortly after moving to Devon and learning about our connection with Robert Murat, my husband applied for a job locally and found himself being interviewed and offered the position by the husband whose wife, Anni Dewani, had been murdered on their honeymoon in South Africa in 2010. The bridegroom was exonerated at the end of 2014 of any involvement in what had initially appeared to be a premeditated murder for hire. My husband didn't take the job.

As they used to say on Crimewatch, sleep well and don't have nightmares!

If only that could have applied to Diane, Meredith, Madeleine and Anni.

Love,

Caz
X

[Paddy]

I found the joint wailing and crying that the parents done on their bed and on the outside floor of the back porch may have been an ulterior motive by them. It seemed such a strange thing to do and I did wonder if it was to mix their DNA on those two spots? Might be wrong but it did look strange... ?