Madeleine McCann

[anna]

P.S,
Jeff...I don't know about being caught,as we are giving them the benefit of the doubt and using IF's...
But as to being questioned...they were.
Then it was as if the country took this crime personally,and the government stepped in.....they were given oodles of money to hire expensive lawyers,and a spokesman who had connections to manouver the situation.
As the Portuguese police chief remarked..what made this couple so special??
EXACTLY.

[cappuccina]

...latest...

http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5g36DOcgKpZ-5fvviutbYaSm4jpAg

[robhouse]

strange that the wikipedia page for madeleine today says:

Madeleine McCann died on the evening of Thursday, 3 May 2007 from the resort of Praia da Luz, in the Algarve region of Portugal, just days short of her fourth birthday, and is still missing.

IP addres of the poster 92.232.199.124 indicates he has a bunch of posts on th church of scientology.

it is probably just a sick joke, but it seems a strange thing to do.

[anna]

Hi Robhouse,

Difficult to say really. I don't think many would post anything sick about Maddie,as it is a very sad case.Sometimes people forget,and type their gut instinct as if it were fact...many people have the same bad feeling about this little girls fate,but we are all hoping that we are mistaken.
I just wish people would had kept out of this whole affair...the Prime Minister and most of all,those who donated large amounts to the fund,like Branson..because of what we are assured are good intentions..they may have prevented anyone from getting to the truth...expensive lawyers,and a spokesman with connections,were unhelpful and hindering to the investigation.They only helped the McCanns,and not Maddie.
I would like to know why Clarence Mitchell is still around,and why,now the dust has settled are we not given the answers to the questions that were unanswered.
ANNA.

[Bob Hinton]

Madeline

One thing that continues to bug me about this case is the attitude of the McCanns. They seem to take every opportunity to place the blame elsewhere. For example in the Associated Press release Mrs McCann once again tries to shift the blame on to the police.

“Mrs McCann strongly condemned detective Goncalo Amaral, who led the hunt and later wrote a book on the case, labelling his behaviour "a disgrace".”

I cannot understand how they fail to realise that their own behaviour contributed greatly to the failure to find Madeline. Mr McCann for example states:

“Mr McCann, 40, said: "We were investigated in the most intimate detail. My plan was to stay quiet and not answer.”

So it would seem that the plan was to obstruct the police investigation from the start. I am also incensed at the attempts to portray leaving the children that night as a ‘one off’.

[I]“Mr McCann again expressed his anguish at leaving Madeleine alone with twins Sean and Amelie as they went for dinner in Portugal's Praia da Luz resort.”[/I]

Since they were doing that on a regular basis it would appear that he managed to stifle his anguish quite well at the time.

As for the joke detective agency, do you recall that they were always promising to find Madeline in the next few days, before Christmas, before Easter etc? I said then that anybody hiring detectives under the condition that they find that Madeline was abducted, would get a lot of promises to return the child but nothing in reality. Why didn’t they go for an agency like Pinkertons or any of the effective agencies dotted around the world?

[claire]

Yes, quite, Bob...they hired the best PR guy, but a shonky PI. Sort of indicates where their priorities were lying.

I'm so confused as to why there are still folk, with no personal knowledge of this case, who get so hostile when anyone suggests that the McCann parents behaved poorly throughout. If Mr McCann had worked in a factory and Mrs McCann had been a former call girl, these same people would have been hung drawn and quartered.

[Rigby]

strange that the wikipedia page for madeleine today says:

Madeleine McCann died on the evening of Thursday, 3 May 2007 from the resort of Praia da Luz, in the Algarve region of Portugal, just days short of her fourth birthday, and is still missing.

IP addres of the poster 92.232.199.124 indicates he has a bunch of posts on th church of scientology.

it is probably just a sick joke, but it seems a strange thing to do.

Perhaps they've just watched the sniffer dog footage and read how deadly accurate "Eddie" and "Keela" have been in the past:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lrrMoUr3OA

My heart literally just sank when I watched it.

[Jeff Leahy]

Keela found human blood...which could have been any age, in a room that was for hire over a long period....

It proves what exactly?

I worked on a program about Brian Jones. The forensic's had chemicals that would detect blood stains that were very old indeed. They found positive traces around the fire plaice...the problem was whose blood and how long had it been there? and was it a match for Brian? and did the blood get there the same night as the supposed murder?

Forensic's have there uses but we should be very careful how we look at the results..again look at the problems highlighted in the Dando case.

Strangely enough I do know the head dog trainer at Essex police force. I will see if I can get any additional information on the dog handlers conclusions.

However my understanding is that the dogs might point you in the right direction but these need to be backed up by positive forensic labratory results..and as far as I'm aware no direct connections to Maddie exist.

And we should be cautious of anything that contains hair or DNA as her clothes and teddy bear would have been covered in the stuff.

Again I'm not taking sides here..I don't know..i'm just suggesting caution on reaching any conclusions when presented with limited or one sided information.

Pirate

[anna]

Hi Pirate,
A good post,with valied points also.We are all in the same boat when it comes to this situation.
I pinpointed the dogs findings,as I understood that these were the two most exeperienced dogs in their particular field of expertese.It has been reported officially that the cadaver dog went mad due to such fresh scent..but you have a point in that we should be cautious also...so thanks for that!!
It would be really interesting to hear from your contact,on the facts concerning the police dogs.
You are always the voice of reason on this thread,which we should all thank you for.I try to remain unemotional on Maddie,but that is sometimes difficult.
We all wish for a positive outcome.
ANNA.

[Bob Hinton]

Pirate Jack

A balanced post from Pirate Jack giving some good advice.

To change the subject for a moment the problem with the forensic evidence in the Dando case was the expert was not allowed to tell the court in detail what he had found.

The prosecution asked him whether or not the minute speck of residue found in a coat owned by Barry George could have come from a pistol cartridge. He replied that it could have come from the primer. End of questioning. He then expected the defence barrister to ask him where else the residue could have come from. He was prepared to give a long list of other sources for the sample, and was amazed when the defence failed to ask him this vital question.

Interviewed afterwards he said he couldn't understand why he was not asked this as his reply would have completely nullified the prosecution case re the sample. Unfortunately witness's can only reply to direct questions, they cannot add anything else.

This is a basic failing of the defence team to fully understand the nature of forensic evidence.

Sir Edward Marshall Hall was once interviewed by a reporter attempting to find out why he was the leading defence barrister. 'Was it his vast knowledge of the law?' he was asked.

'Good grief no' came the reply ' I know nothing of the law, I leave that to my clerk, but I am quite well versed with poisons, bloodstains and firearms’.

He was being modest. His knowledge of these subjects was encyclopaedic and often surpassed those of the prosecutions expert witness’s. It is often mooted that the fictional barrister Rumpole was based in part on Marshall-Hall.

[anna]

Hi Bob,
I don't know if you've seen the site that Capps highlighted,but it has all the usual facts,plus lots of other stuff besides,including parts,in English,of the Portuguese Police chief's book.Could be a good read if you have a few spare minutes at some time,unless you have seen all the details already,it might have something new for you,though.
Pirate Jack has highlighted the excuse that was put forward as to the relevance of what the dogs found.
You have pur forward some good points on forensics..but the dogs did it for me...
What I did highlight,and what I found important,was what the dog handler said on the above sight about his dog,and it's unusually hasty reaction to what was in there,he seemed suprised about an animal he is used to working with on a regular basis.
There is also a report about the Irish family(I think there was about 7 of them) who said they saw a man carrying a child walking towards them,as they came back to the resort.They noticed that he had a distinctive walk.
When they got home,they were watching the return of the McCanns on the news,Gerry McCann carried one of the twins accross the tarmac,he was carrying one of the twins in the same manner as the guy they had seen,he also had the same distinctive walk.They contacted the authorities.
I did hear about them,but thought that if they waited until they did to report what they saw,there was some doubt in my mind as to their reliability.Now I know why the delay.
Interesting stuff.
ANNA.

[anna]

Hi Rigby,
Yes,as you can see,I agree 100%..those dogs certainly have an impressive CV!!!..bit hard to argue with that,I'd have said.

Hi Claire,
Hit the nail on the head!I have also never considered that doctors have bad pay...especially at the level Gerry McCann is at.Yet they still had money troubles and a huge house.....as I have said...they were massaging their ego's when told,if they turned up at the quiz they would have a chance of winning...looks like the size of the house,underlines that particular fact.

[Maria]

Keela found human blood...which could have been any age, in a room that was for hire over a long period....

It proves what exactly?

I worked on a program about Brian Jones. The forensic's had chemicals that would detect blood stains that were very old indeed. They found positive traces around the fire plaice...the problem was whose blood and how long had it been there? and was it a match for Brian? and did the blood get there the same night as the supposed murder?

Forensic's have there uses but we should be very careful how we look at the results..again look at the problems highlighted in the Dando case.

Strangely enough I do know the head dog trainer at Essex police force. I will see if I can get any additional information on the dog handlers conclusions.

However my understanding is that the dogs might point you in the right direction but these need to be backed up by positive forensic labratory results..and as far as I'm aware no direct connections to Maddie exist.

And we should be cautious of anything that contains hair or DNA as her clothes and teddy bear would have been covered in the stuff.

Again I'm not taking sides here..I don't know..i'm just suggesting caution on reaching any conclusions when presented with limited or one sided information.

Pirate

Pirate Jack, good analysis ! Also considering the room the Mc Cann´s stayed at, was let for hire TWICE to other people before the forensics on DNA were taken from the room.

To clarify false and misleading statements, it was not the Prime Minister of the U.K. who fired the detective in charge of the McCann´s investigation but his Portuguese superiors as that particular detective Gonzalo M had had an IDENTICAL case to the McCann´s only a stone throw away from where Madeleine´s abduction took place. This detective subjected the mother of the disappeared girl to torture in order to extract a confession. So the mother appeared with swollen black eyes, she had been hit and kicked inside the police station, her husband put up a complaint with the proofs of the photographs and the detective Gonzalo M. was promptly removed from his job

I just thought I would set the record straight instead of this " Illuminati " and ridiculous stories.

[anna]

Hi Maria,

We cannot excuse everything in this investigation,as if nothing has happened that is amiss.

The apartment may have been used by others...but one of these dogs is smelling DEATH....very highly trained police dogs.
Unless someone else had died in there and their death scent dripped all over those rooms,as the dogs proved,then something has happened in there.

Sorry,whatever you can drag up that explains everything else,in you eyes.
Death scent was in there...and that was not from the Portuguese investigation,but ours.

I have NEVER thought that child was abducted...always that she was dead that evening.Until she turns up alive,will always feel that she met her death in that apartment.
There are many facts,that you will happily explain away,that are not right,and are so blindingly obviously not right.....I am suprised that even you can find an excuse for them.

IF I am wrong about the McCanns...as I think they,among others,know far more than they are disclosing....then I will admit that I have been wrong.
Until that day arrives,I shall hold my usual opinion of them...which if they do know more,yet fail to disclose it....may be unprintable.If anybody fancies a world trip...I should get a cuss box...as my language may be unladylike,to say the least.
Regards
ANNA.

[Maria]

Anna:

If memory serves me right Kate McCann said that she had handled dead bodies in the hospital where she worked at. Remember she is a doctor, so handling dead bodies is not unusual.