The Sinking of the RMS Titanic and other ships.

[Shangas]

I read "Infamous disasters" on the board-description here, and since there wasn't one about the most infamous martime disaster in the world, I thought I should create one.

I hope you fellows don't mind.

The sinking of the RMS Titanic on the evening of the 14th-15th of April, 1912, was always an event which I have found intensely fascinating and I continue to be fascinated and interested in it even today. I first read about the Titanic when I was in school and the whole tale of the "unsinkable ship" going down with 2/3 of its passengers is just too good of a story to forget.

So, I open up this thread in the hopes of perhaps creating a discussion about it, and other famous martime disasters.

[Celesta]

I read "Infamous disasters" on the board-description here, and since there wasn't one about the most infamous martime disaster in the world, I thought I should create one.

I hope you fellows don't mind.

The sinking of the RMS Titanic on the evening of the 14th-15th of April, 1912, was always an event which I have found intensely fascinating and I continue to be fascinated and interested in it even today. I first read about the Titanic when I was in school and the whole tale of the "unsinkable ship" going down with 2/3 of its passengers is just too good of a story to forget.

So, I open up this thread in the hopes of perhaps creating a discussion about it, and other famous martime disasters.

Hi Shangas,

Welcome to the Casebook. There is, or was, a thread about this, or at least discussion of it. I don't know if it got lost in the crash earlier this year or not. Have you tried doing a search for threads or posts?

Best,

Celesta

[Shangas]

I did do a search, I couldn't find anything.

[Celesta]

I did the same for threads and posts. I guess the thread that discussed the Titanic got lost when the Casebook crashed back in the earlier part of the year. I know there are people who are interested in this event.

Best,

Cel

[Shangas]

So what, do we lock this...or...what's going on here?

[Celesta]

No, of course not. When people notice it, they'll likely post something. It's a fascinating subject. Mayerling and some others posted some things on the When Flying Saucers Attack thread. You might want to look there. It's in this same section. I think Anna was interested in the subject. If you bump into her, you might ask her what thread the Titanic was on.

Only Ally and Stephen close threads for various reasons.

[Mayerling]

Hi Shangas and Celeste,

Titanic is the epitome of a great disaster. Occasionally I have mentioned it on this board, and I have read at least five books on the subject (it's like Jack the Ripper - you can build a whole library just on that subject). Have you used their main website: Encyclopedia Titanica. I've looked it over and it is full of information and discussion boards, similar to the Casebook.

As for other leading shipwrecks:

R.M.S. Lusitania - carrying armaments or not when sunk?

R.M.S. Empress of Ireland - the forgotten big disaster of the 1912 - 1915 period. It's commander, Henry Kendall, is better known for helping to trap Dr. Crippen and Ethel Le Neve on his earlier Canadian-Pacific steamer command, R.M.S. Montrose.

U.S.S. Cyclops - where did this collier sink, and how? Or did the German born Captain turn it over to the enemy (it disappeared in 1918)?

H.M.S. Victoria - the battleship that was rammed by a badly given order in maneuvers in 1893 (and was spoofed in a sequence in the movie KIND HEARTS AND CORONETS in 1949).

There is also possible discussions on ships like the C.S.S. Hunley and U.S.S. Monitor, both of which are presently restored in total or partial state in Charleston and at Hampton Roads.

There is plenty to discuss here.

Best wishes,

Jeff

[Shangas]

You gotta feel sorry for Crippen in a way. If he'd kept in steerage-class, the captain would never have noticed him and would never have sent a wire to Scotland Yard. Aaah, crooks do stupid things. Like book first class and let yourself be seen everywhere.

The RMS Lusitania was carrying weapons, I believe. She was converted slightly to carry ammo and some light guns and she had some cells rigged up below-deck to serve as holding-pens for rowdy people, but I'm not too certain.

The Sinking of the RMS (or rather, HMHS) Britannic, when it struck a naval mine, was another famous shipping disaster. Despite the horrific damage, only 30 people onboard died in the crash, with the rest escaping in lifeboats or swimming to shore (the captain ran his ship aground to stop it foundering in the open seas).

[Phryne Fisher]

Titanic thread! Good idea

I read a book about ten years ago (which I now can't find and can't remember the title or the authors' names. I think there were two authors) which proposed the theory that the ship that sank was actually RMS Olympic, and that the White Star Line had swapped the two for an insurance scam or something. I wasn't convinced by the theory, but it was a fascinating read. Also read an ancient tome from the library which was a compilation of accounts by survivors of the disaster. It was excellent. I had to stop reading it on the train because I kept crying at all the sad bits and instances of bravery and self-sacrifice .

And I just adored "A Night to Remember" (I think it was called) with Kenneth More as Lightoller (? - what a shocking memory I've got). Didn't bother watching the big Hollywood blockbuster. I may be wrong, but I suspect I didn't miss much!

[Shangas]

The film is called "A Night To Remember". It's one of the most accurate portrayals of the sinking ever, I think. I liked it very much.

It's hard to imagine a more shocking disaster than the sinking of the Titanic. 1,490 people freezing or drowning in the water. And that water was quite literally freezing. It was so horrible.

I was watching an interview with one of the survivors once, I forget who, and she was a little girl when the Titanic sank. She escaped in a lifeboat with her mother, and years later, she told the interviewer:

"I remember asking my mother, 'do you remember the screams of the people in the water?', and she said, 'Yes. But do you remember when the screams...STOPPED?'"

And I think - It must be so horrible, to be sitting in a lifeboat, listening to a thousand a half people all dying at once. In fact, the disaster had some horrific affects on survivors. Frank Goldsmith (travelling 3rd class with his mother and father and sister), never took his children to a baseball game. Ever. He couldn't stand it when the crowds cheered. He imagined he was back in that lifeboat, listening to all the screaming people in the water.

[String]

There is also the Princess Alice disaster which is slightly linked to the ripper case as Stride was reported as saying her husband and 2 children had died on that disaster. This has been found to be untrue.

http://www.yellins.com/woolwichferry/thames/PrincessAlice.htm

http://www.casebook.org/victims/stride.html

[Shangas]

Another forgotten martime disaster is the sinking of the SS. Antinoe, and that one really is heroic.

In 1926, the SS. President Roosevelt sailed out of New York Harbour, setting a course for Germany. The weather was rough and stormish. When they were out at sea, the crew of the Roosevelt recieved news via wireless, that another ship, the SS. Antinoe, was in serious trouble and in danger of foundering. The Roosevelt jotted down the Antinoe's position and immediately steamed to the rescue.

The Roosevelt found the Antinoe rolling in heavy seas, with the crew, though perfectly alright under the circumstances, trapped aboard their vessel, unable to launch lifeboats and escape, due to the rough conditions.

The captain of the Roosevelt decided to send a lifeboat and men over to the doomed ship several times, but this failed due to the weather, resulting in the loss of six of the Roosevelt's boats, and two of its crew.

The captain was determined not to leave the men to drown at sea, and sent a wire to his company in New York City, saying that he was attempting a rescue-mission and would stay alongside the Antinoe until such time as the men were rescued, or until such time as the ship sank and the rescue would be fruitless.

Unknown to the captain, this simple telegram caused a storm, and soon newspapers and journalists were desperate for news. It also caused a storm at the offices of the United States Lines offices.

In those days, as it is today, time means money. The longer a ship stayed at sea, the more money it would cost the company. The captain of the Roosevelt knew this, but he threw it to the wind.

On Thursday, 28th of January, 1926, the weather had finally calmed down. Captain Fried of the Roosevelt deemed it safe to try another rescue, after staying by the Antinoe's side for three and a half days.

This time, rescue was successful and the captain of the Antinoe, a man named Tose, ordered that the married men amongst his crew be the first to be towed to safety. Eventually, everyone, including Tose, were rescued, and the Antinoe left to the mercy of the waves. Fried radioed his offices in New York with the results of his mission and sailed onto Germany.

When the crew of the Roosevelt next docked in New York City, they recieved a hero's welcome and a tickertape parade.

[Celesta]

Hi Shangas, Jeff, and All,

Was A Night to Remember based on solely on Archibald Gracie's book, or was it taken from more than one book? I've been reading Gracie's book, rather slowly though, and I'm to the opening of the investigation.

Did anyone see the documentaries where they found part of the hull of the Titanic and the companion one where they dove on the Britannic and found some of the same defects in the two ship? I can't remember the name of the programs, but they ran on our History Channel and I think it was either Underwater Detectives or Underwater Archaeologists or something like that.

[Shangas]

A Night To Remember is based on a book, also called "A Night To Remember", by Walter Lord.

[Celesta]

Lord, born in Oct. of 1917, was only 5 when the ship sank, and grew up to be a writer of documentaries.

Gracie, was a survivor of the shipwreck, but died later that year. He wrote a small book, Titanic: A Survivor's Story. The book has its flaws but is apparently respected. Gracie died in Dec. of 1912. He never recovered from the effects of the hypothermia apparently and the trauma. The link is a report of his death in the Times and recaps his story.

The two men ran together in my mind apparently and I thought Gracie's book was also used in the making of the movie.

http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/col-gracie-dies-haunted-titanic.html