Jon Benet's Family Exhonerated

[louisa]

Actually Errata - yes he DID say those words, because I saw him say them during an interview. He was being interviewed by a female presenter (sorry I don't know her name - all American female presenters look and sound the same to me). The Ramseys were sitting on the right hand side (of the screen) Patsy on John's right. John Ramsey said these words "She was a little Lolita - a sex kitten". The female interviewer looked incredulous and said "Did you just describe JonBenet as a sex kitten?" To which he said, with a large smile "Yes I did, she was a little sex kitten". Patsy sat beside him holding his hand and smiling at him indulgently.

I had read the book and wanted to find out more about this murder, so I had been looking at so much stuff on the internet over the last few days - everything I could find on the murder - and that's a huge amount - and I can't at present re-locate that particular video clip. I will keep trying to find it - it's definitely there. I just wish I could remember the interviewer's name. When I find it, I'll post the link on this forum.

[Errata]

And John Ramsey never said that about his daughter. It was written about her in an article, and Barbara Walters brought it up in an interview. It was "Jonbenet was a Lolita" "She was a pint-sized sex kitten" and "Daddy's little hooker". If there is footage of him saying those words, then it was in response to a question like "What was the most hurtful said about Jonbenet?". But he is not the one who used those phrases to describe her.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Louisa. I don't think John had anything to do with it, but Patsy was no patsy. John Bennett has a new book coming out shortly, by the way. Jon Benet may or may not have been a murder victim. It's not inconceivable that Burke accidentally wounded Jon Benet in a way that Patsy thought was mortal, and the rest was to cover it up. If this were the case, she likely killed Jon Benet unwittingly in the process. Another possibility is that Patsy accidentally killed Jon Benet and covered it up.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[louisa]

Funily enough - I've just finished reading the book by one of the detectives on the case - Steve Thomas. He got thoroughly fed up and frustrated with the way the police were unable to get to the Ramseys - even to interview them. They had surrounded themselves with lawyers and the District Attorney was in their pocket.

They were the murderers and to suggest a third person is ridiculous imo.

On YouTube there's a clip of the Ramseys being interviewed on a TV show (I watched this last night). John Ramsey states "JonBenet was a Lolita - a little sex kitten" What father would view his six year old daughter in that way?

I reckon JonBenet was killed by her mother in a fit of rage - the mother (Patsy) pushed the little girl and she hit her head on a hard surface. Then the rest was staged to look like a kidnap. Patsy Ramsey hid her daughter's body in a part of the house she didn't think would be looked in.

What kind of kidnapper would kill his victim and leave the body AND the ransom note?

The investigation was a farce from the police's point of view.

As for new DNA results........these have been given to us by....guess who?....The Boulder District Attorney - who - according to Steve Thomas - are corrupt.

[Mrs. Fiddymont]

Even after all these years (and reading nearly everything I could find regarding JonBenet's death), I have to admit I'm still "on the fence" regarding the parents' involvement--or lack thereof.

I am troubled by the fact that Burke's voice was apparently heard on the (enhanced) 911 call, after which it's said his father is heard telling him something like, "Go back to bed, this has nothing to do with you."

Yet both John and Patsy swore that Burke slept thru the entire thing. Something I find nearly impossible to believe, unless his "sleeping style" was more like catatonia!

As for the Ramseys being "officially cleared"--that is total and utter nonsense. Someone "in authority" writing anything on an official piece of paper means nothing--not in Colorado, not anywhere.

I do not understand the Ramseys' refusal to cooperate with the police for years after their daughter's murder. Why on earth NOT, if they had nothing to hide? John Ramsey's plea "We just lost our child, we need time to grieve" sounds like a touching remark from a devastated father--until you ask if that doesn't apply to ALL parents of missing/murdered children? They aren't allowed to dodge the police in order to take a little time-out to grieve! (Well, with the very recent exception of Baby Lisa's mother...then again the fact that she apparently was passed-out drunk and/or drugged out of her mind when the baby was "kidnapped" renders anything she says pretty conveniently useless anyway....)

Whoever committed this horrendous crime, the investigation was hopelessly bungled from the start, rendering any "DNA results" meaningless (contamination etc) and it seems that poor little JonBenet will never receive justice.

Someone got away with murder, and I don't like it one little bit!!!

[Zodiac]

My non-sociopathic friend (not that I actually have any SOCIOPATHIC friends!) (that I know of) broke his younger brother's neck when he was throttling him in the yard because he was annoying him. (They were Michigan hillbillys, though my friend's since gone on to better things.) This brother's neck hit a tree root while they were squirmishing on the ground.

Interestingly, the brother eventually turned out to be fine, after wearing a neck brace or a neck cast or something. I don't recall if he needed surgery.

I guess the family genes were resilient!

My God, that's worse than Detroit!!!

Best wishes,
Zodiac.

P.S. If you are under 40 then this post will probably fall on stoney ground!!!

[Merry_Olde_Mary]

My non-sociopathic friend (not that I actually have any SOCIOPATHIC friends!) (that I know of) broke his younger brother's neck when he was throttling him in the yard because he was annoying him. (They were Michigan hillbillys, though my friend's since gone on to better things.) This brother's neck hit a tree root while they were squirmishing on the ground.

Interestingly, the brother eventually turned out to be fine, after wearing a neck brace or a neck cast or something. I don't recall if he needed surgery.

I guess the family genes were resilient!

[mariab]

Hi Maria,
I know what you mean!!! Some cases, for whatever reasons, just seem to really touch us at a particular time in our lives I guess and thus we go through a phase of the most deep and serious research into them. I suppose that it just goes with the territory, but sometimes it can prove to be the only path to the truth of the matter. Anyhow, hope that you are well and happy,
Best wishes,
Zodiac.

Hey Zodiac, I hope you're fine, and your dog too! I'm fine, not terribly happy just right now, having to deal with polishing my stupid book manuscript (dissertation) of 500p. in German to go to the editor, while ailing with a bit of fever and a hurting, tear-leaking eye (ugh). Just missed a hell of a party on a stationary boat in a lake with a live reggae band and the possibility to wakeboard all day. But right now, even the thought of having a shower makes me shiver, so I guess I wasn't up for the lake. :-)
As for the “cases that hunt us“, I fully agree with you. For instance, you've been pretty close to the Yorkshire Ripper case, both geographically and privately. I can't compare with similar experiences, but the cases that have pulled me in (apart from the “mainstream“ ones such as Manson, Bundy, the Green River Killer, your name-mate the Zodiac) were Mary Bell, Karla Homolka, the James Bulger case, and the Ramsey case.

Errata, I KNOW that what Burke did is typical for kids. Still, as your own story proves, cases have happened were children accidentally got seriously injured by their siblings and playmates. The possibility that the Ramseys were hiding precisely such an occurrence, ending up in their daugher's death, is plausible. Either that, or her mother accidentally killed her in a fit of rage, perhaps over bedwetting.

By the by, when I was small, my cousin almost blinded me with a twig, another time he hit me hard on the head with a huge, heavy, ugly plastic doll (with no injury) and when I told him “Are you out of your freaking mind?“, he says “I'm awfully sorry“, very earnestly/gentlemanly. :-) I also recall him chasing me into the loo, while I armed myself with the toilet brush and stuffed it in his face. LOL. Good times. After that, I don't recall him wanting to beat me up so much anymore, I think.

My favorite incident is once when we were fishing, and afterwards I persuaded him to hang two little fishes we caught (with the help of a long fishing rod) high up on the electrical wiring cable running in front of their summer house. His grandmother got very upset, because all ladders in the house were too short to reach the dangling fishes RIGHT in front of their house door, which had started to stink pretty bad in the sun. On top of that, my cousin slapped his grandmother, who completely freaked out, claiming I had “instigated“ all this, and threw me out of the house. I don't recall that part, but my mom says I was crying and begging "Please let me stay, I'll be sooo good, I promise“. LOL. Kids...

What's cute about JonBenet is, she liked to run around barefoot all the time, claiming she needed “to feel the rythm of the earth“. Apparently she was a tomboy, when they didn't have her all dolled-up for the pageants. And in their book, her parents confess that she didn't know how to read and write at age 6, not even her name! But her mom bleached her hair regularly, and taught her how to apply make up and how to walk “like a vamp“. Interesting priorities...

[Errata]

Less than a year before the murder, Burke documentedly “accidentally“ hit his sister with a golf club in the face, hard enough for Patsy Ramsey to “go shop“ for a cosmetic surgeon, worried that the scar might remain, obstructing John Benet's “career“ as a peagent beauty queen. John Ramsey appeared majorly preoccupied with his golf clubs on the day after the body was discovered. According to more than one witnesses, Patsy Ramsey's sister came over to the house and collected the golf clubs among other items, then the Ramseys immediately left for Atlanta.

But this is what I mean. His parents are behaving suspiciously, not him. I accidentally hit my sister in the head with an aluminum baseball bat. Hard enough that she had to be evaluated for a brain injury. And unlike many similar "accidents" that arose because we didn't get along, this genuinely was a freak thing. I was practicing my swing (I was on a truly terrible softball team) and she stepped up just outside the arc of the swing as I lost my grip. She was close enough that it had barely left my hand when it hit her right above the temple and she dropped like a stone. At first I thought it was funny, but then I realized she was really hurt. I was about 10.

It isn't suspicious that he hit her in the face with a golf club. Even if he did it on purpose, thats not really that remarkable between siblings. And it's not that hard to walk into a golf swing. I've done that too although I got an arm up in time. Kids do William Tell stuff all the time. See if they can hit a can off their little sisters head with a baseball bat. I mean, its clearly not a good idea, but they're kids. I mean, if it had happened when he was 17, THAT could be suspicious. An eight year old hitting his five year old sister with a golf club has pretty much no pathology attached to it, unless it was 2 am and she was sound asleep in her bed.

But clearly his parents had a positive gift for making it look worse. Or they were trying. But Burke hitting her with sports equipment is really pretty unremarkable in the annals of sibling interaction.

[Zodiac]

For some reason, 2-3 years ago (long before I started with Ripperology) I've had a phase when this case fascinated me. Go figure.

Hi Maria,

I know what you mean!!! Some cases, for whatever reasons, just seem to really touch us at a particular time in our lives I guess and thus we go through a phase of the most deep and serious research into them. I suppose that it just goes with the territory, but sometimes it can prove to be the only path to the truth of the matter. Anyhow, hope that you are well and happy,

Best wishes,
Zodiac.

[mariab]

For some reason, 2-3 years ago (long before I started with Ripperology) I've had a phase when this case fascinated me. Go figure.

[ChainzCooper]

Dang Maria you've got this case on lock haha
Thanks for your recommendations
Jordan

[mariab]

what one book would you recommend on this case?Jordan

Hi Jordan. Definitely the book written by the Colorado detective investigating the case, Steven Thomas (who supects the mother and describes what all went wrong in the investigation), the book written by a medical examiner describing the little girl's injuries, and Perfect murder, perfect town which also discusses the local politics in the DA's Office in Colorado and the forces at work during the investigation. The book written by the Ramseys is worth a read (if you can lend it from the library) to see how full of hot air it is – it talks more about the parents' posh lifestyle than about their dead daughter. Initially the Ramseys advertized that they'd create a foundation in honour of their daughter with the money from their book, but less that a year later it has been observed that the foundation was inactive, including its internet homepage.
You can also read these books online at the amazon site.

To be fair, the Colorado police, as they have admitted, did very well in dealing the crime they THOUGHT had been committed, and extremely poorly with the crime that HAD been committed.
It would be perfectly reasonable to arrive at the scene and say "Are you sure she's not in the house? Maybe hiding somewhere?" And it would make sense for the Ramseys to have not searched the house after finding the ransom note. So then they would search the house top to bottom making sure it isn't some sick joke. Usually the family is involved in this process, since they know their child's hiding places, and whatever nooks and crannies are in the house. Usually however they are accompanied by detectives.

Sure, Errata, but in this case the police left one sole detective alone at the house all day to supervise 7 adults, and the detective asked the father and his friend to search the lower part of the house themselves, unsupervised.

The ransom note was clearly written by the parents. It was written inside of the Ramsey house, on Patsy Ramsey's writing paper and with her pen, both found in their living room. The police even found indentations on previous pages which reconstructed various previous versions of the ransom note. The police also noticed a certain rare identical turn of a phrase used in the ransom note which was also used by the parents in a statement they issued before their daughter's funeral.

To this day I have never seen any mention of a babysitter in regards to the case, but the kids certainly had one.

The babysitter was accused early (by Patsy Ramsey), investigated, and she had an alibi, plus hers and her husband's handwriting samples didn't fit the ransom note, unlike Patsy Ramsey's, which did.

except that it is unfair that Burke remains under suspicion despite the fact that he has never done anything to warrant it. His parent's actions may seem to implicate him, but Burke's actions never did.

Less than a year before the murder, Burke documentedly “accidentally“ hit his sister with a golf club in the face, hard enough for Patsy Ramsey to “go shop“ for a cosmetic surgeon, worried that the scar might remain, obstructing John Benet's “career“ as a peagent beauty queen. John Ramsey appeared majorly preoccupied with his golf clubs on the day after the body was discovered. According to more than one witnesses, Patsy Ramsey's sister came over to the house and collected the golf clubs among other items, then the Ramseys immediately left for Atlanta.

[Errata]

What's outrageous is that the Colorado detective asked Ramsey and White to go search the basement themselves!!

To be fair, the Colorado police, as they have admitted, did very well in dealing the crime they THOUGHT had been committed, and extremely poorly with the crime that HAD been committed.

It would be perfectly reasonable to arrive at the scene and say "Are you sure she's not in the house? Maybe hiding somewhere?" And it would make sense for the Ramseys to have not searched the house after finding the ransom note. So then they would search the house top to bottom making sure it isn't some sick joke. Usually the family is involved in this process, since they know their child's hiding places, and whatever nooks and crannies are in the house. Usually however they are accompanied by detectives.

Certainly the police imagined that she could already be dead. I don't think it occurred to anyone that she would be dead IN the house.

The ransom note was completely bizarre. It sounds exactly like a 13 year old boy wrote it. The tenor and rhythm of it even matches a monologue from some screwball mafia comedy (the name of which completely escapes me. but it's the "you call the cops, she dies. you make a wrong move, she dies. you put so much as one toe out of line, she dies" part). My problem with family oriented theories is that when adults try to frame someone in writing, they choose other adults. Making it sound as though the writer is black, or southern, whatever. While the note claims to be from foreigners, there is no word choice or style that would back that up. However, the note was too sophisticated for a child Burke's age.

It could have been written by a cognitively and developmentally delayed person. That would match sort of the IQ and EQ of the note. And unfortunately, it does occasionally happen that a developmentally delayed adult fixates on a child they perceive to be their equal. A man functioning at the level of a ten year old could see girls near that age as potential partners. It never goes well. But he would need knowledge of the house, and certainly no one fitting that description has ever come up. On the other hand, it could also have actually been written by a 13 year old boy. If it actually was written by a teenage boy, it makes more sense in terms of access to the house. To this day I have never seen any mention of a babysitter in regards to the case, but the kids certainly had one. And could easily be a teenage girl with a boyfriend or brother.

Anyway, that's my take on it. I have no real theories, except that it is unfair that Burke remains under suspicion despite the fact that he has never done anything to warrant it. His parent's actions may seem to implicate him, but Burke's actions never did.

[ChainzCooper]

Maria,
I know these statements seem like BS I was just telling you what the program stated. Cool to hear your input, what one book would you recommend on this case?
Jordan