Move to Murder: Who Killed Julia Wallace?

[RodCrosby]

I've demolished his false logic too many times to recall.

Wallace was gambling his life with a nine-rounds-of-russian-roulette plan.
For no discernible motive or gain.

Parry was gambling tuppence (which he scammed back from the operator) for potentially £3000 in today's money.

The Cambridge-graduate judge explained why that was risk-free.

"If she had been told, as the prisoner said, that the prisoner was seeking an interview with Qualtrough, and if he was admitted, he would soon find out where the prisoner was, and find out that he was not in the house : on the other hand, if he found he was in the house he could go away."
Mr. Justice Wright, summing-up in Rex v Wallace

[RodCrosby]

And as no one else was there it had to be Wallace.

There was, of course, no evidence he was there at the time of the murder. [Disinformation leading to circular logic]

According to the initial evaluation, Wallace was four miles away...

[cobalt]

But it wasn’t as if the milk boy appeared at random Cobalt. He would have turned up at the same time every week and so Wallace would have had a high level of confidence (and with valid reason) that Close would have turned up as expected and at roughly the same time

HS,
I'm sure that's true and was presumably built into any plan that Wallace had formulated.

It's just that 'roughly the same time' was rather too close (apologies for pun) for comfort given the narrow window of opportunity. Had the milk boy Alan Close arrived at his usual time of, we presume 6.20/6.25, then that was perfect timing for Wallace. It gave him a reasonable period of time, almost half an hour, to do the deed and clean up with the advantage that Julia had been spotted alive and well close enough to his time of leaving.

However, as the minutes dragged on till nearer the more likely time of Close's arrival- 6.37- Wallace's plan was turning into sand before his eyes. It's hard to accept that 10 minutes was long enough to do what was required, but that was all he had- otherwise arriving late in Menlove Gardens area would have exposed the reason for the delay. And that 7.30 meeting time was known to at least some of his chess colleagues, so he couldn't alter it to 8pm for the benefit of the police afterwards.


I just don't think he had long enough to clean up inside the house, freshen up his clothes and compose himself enough to dispose of the murder weapon on his ill-fated journey to the Menlove area.

[Abby Normal]

But it wasn’t as if the milk boy appeared at random Cobalt. He would have turned up at the same time every week and so Wallace would have had a high level of confidence (and with valid reason) that Close would have turned up as expected and at roughly the same time

HS,
I'm sure that's true and was presumably built into any plan that Wallace had formulated.

It's just that 'roughly the same time' was rather too close (apologies for pun) for comfort given the narrow window of opportunity. Had the milk boy Alan Close arrived at his usual time of, we presume 6.20/6.25, then that was perfect timing for Wallace. It gave him a reasonable period of time, almost half an hour, to do the deed and clean up with the advantage that Julia had been spotted alive and well close enough to his time of leaving.

However, as the minutes dragged on till nearer the more likely time of Close's arrival- 6.37- Wallace's plan was turning into sand before his eyes. It's hard to accept that 10 minutes was long enough to do what was required, but that was all he had- otherwise arriving late in Menlove Gardens area would have exposed the reason for the delay. And that 7.30 meeting time was known to at least some of his chess colleagues, so he couldn't alter it to 8pm for the benefit of the police afterwards.


I just don't think he had long enough to clean up inside the house, freshen up his clothes and compose himself enough to dispose of the murder weapon on his ill-fated journey to the Menlove area.

Hi cobalt all
Apparently he told julia of the meeting at 7:30. I wonder if she was wondering why he was taking so long to leave for this appointment?
He was supposed to be a puntual/ early type guy no?

[Herlock Sholmes]

But it wasn’t as if the milk boy appeared at random Cobalt. He would have turned up at the same time every week and so Wallace would have had a high level of confidence (and with valid reason) that Close would have turned up as expected and at roughly the same time.

It’s not like Parry for example who would have relied on slabs of good fortune simply to get the plan up and running and then a massive piece of luck to get the accomplice into the house.

For some though this passes as ‘logic.’ For some, for Wallace to have planned it he would have had to have been near perfect or he’s innocent. Yet, for some, in Parry’s case the goalposts move. He can come up with any kind flimsy plan and it’s ok and points to his guilt.

Just to flesh this point out a little.

When I talk about the luck of the plan I’m not talking about the risk of being caught after the event. This point is often twisted to suit by commentators with dishonest motives. What I’m talking about is the risk of the plan working. The plan to get Wallace out of the house and for a reasonable length of time. And then, for the acccomplice theory, to get the Phantom into the house past a woman who was very loathe to admit anyone that she didn’t know.

So we have 1) get Wallace out of the house. 2) keep him out for sufficient time. 3) get the Phantom admitted to the house.

1) Only Wallace could be certain of this. There are 6 or 7 plausible ways for this to have gone awry for Parry though. We should treat the ‘well if it worked it worked but if it failed...so what’ with the derision it deserves. It’s either a plan or it’s not. For Wallace it’s a plan. For Parry it’s a ‘hit and hope’ effort.

2) Parry could have made a reasonable estimate at the minimum time Wallace would have been away. The problem with that is that it follows that the accomplice would have wanted to be away from the house by a reasonable time. Say 8.00 or 8.15 (before Wallace might have returned.) Why then do Parry’s known movements show absolutely no indication of a man taking part in a plan (picking up the Phantom.) In fact they indicate quite the opposite.

3) Another huge slab of luck required. There is no way that Parry could have either expected or hoped that Wallace would have mentioned ‘Qualtrough’ or MGE to Julia. No way. She took no interest in his business dealings and so if he’d simply have said ‘I’m going out on business tonight’ then, yet again, this risible plan crumbles. And just to add...even if they were lucky enough for Wallace to have told Julia it’s still not certain that she’d have let the Phantom in. Just because she’d heard the name before doesn’t mean that she knew him.

When is a plan not a plan. When it’s acredited to Parry.

[Herlock Sholmes]

But it wasn’t as if the milk boy appeared at random Cobalt. He would have turned up at the same time every week and so Wallace would have had a high level of confidence (and with valid reason) that Close would have turned up as expected and at roughly the same time

HS,
I'm sure that's true and was presumably built into any plan that Wallace had formulated.

It's just that 'roughly the same time' was rather too close (apologies for pun) for comfort given the narrow window of opportunity. Had the milk boy Alan Close arrived at his usual time of, we presume 6.20/6.25, then that was perfect timing for Wallace. It gave him a reasonable period of time, almost half an hour, to do the deed and clean up with the advantage that Julia had been spotted alive and well close enough to his time of leaving.

However, as the minutes dragged on till nearer the more likely time of Close's arrival- 6.37- Wallace's plan was turning into sand before his eyes. It's hard to accept that 10 minutes was long enough to do what was required, but that was all he had- otherwise arriving late in Menlove Gardens area would have exposed the reason for the delay. And that 7.30 meeting time was known to at least some of his chess colleagues, so he couldn't alter it to 8pm for the benefit of the police afterwards.


I just don't think he had long enough to clean up inside the house, freshen up his clothes and compose himself enough to dispose of the murder weapon on his ill-fated journey to the Menlove area.

I think that 10 minutes was more than ample time. I think that he could have done it all in 5. I think he had longer than 5 but I’m just saying I don’t think he needed all of 10.

I think he could have used the mackintosh and gloves and gotten no blood on him. There would be no clean up inside the house required. He would have had days, if not weeks, to find some spot for disposing of the weapon.

I take your point though Cobalt that with the milk boy being later than usual Wallace might have started to panic. Perhaps this is why the staged robbery wasn’t as thorough as it might have been?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi cobalt all
Apparently he told julia of the meeting at 7:30. I wonder if she was wondering why he was taking so long to leave for this appointment?
He was supposed to be a puntual/ early type guy no?

Hi Abby,

As a punctual type guy we might ask why, on the night of the phone call, did Wallace only arrive at the chess club on-the-dot of the match deadline? He’d been to that club untold number of times. He’d have known the tram times off by heart. And yet, on the night of the call, he was within seconds of being late. And let’s have no more laughable suggestions from certain quarters that Wallace would have ‘planned’ to arrive at the exact time of the match deadline.

Perhaps he did it deliberately just to make people suspicious of him???

[RodCrosby]

But it wasn’t as if the milk boy appeared at random Cobalt. He would have turned up at the same time every week and so Wallace would have had a high level of confidence (and with valid reason) that Close would have turned up as expected and at roughly the same time.

180 degrees from the facts, as shown, not least by Antony, only a couple of clicks ago...

It's the keystone of the case, as cobalt rightly identifies.

You might now realise...yawn... why I posted - humouring tedious Wallaceites like you - the following very FIRST question, some two months ago, knowing you'd already imploded before you'd got out of bed...

I'll start you off then...

EVIDENCE: Wallace arrived at Menlove Gardens with 10 minutes in hand for his appointment.

[RodCrosby]

Apparently he told julia of the meeting at 7:30. I wonder if she was wondering why he was taking so long to leave for this appointment?
He was supposed to be a puntual/ early type guy no?

Wallace was certainly that, arriving with ten minutes to spare...

Perfectly innocent timing, to any reasonable mind.

Except to the cretinous late=guilty, on time=guilty, early=guilty obsessives...

[cobalt]

HS,
We’ll have to disagree on the amount of time it would have taken Wallace to murder and then clean up. I have never been convinced by the mackintosh as a splash guard employed by the killer, any more than the naked Wallace scenario. Why bother to put it under the body after the attack?

I can see how a plastic screen would help greatly in avoiding blood staining, but some would surely have found its way on to clothing, particularly shoes and sleeves. Then there are the inevitable splashes on to the hands, wedding ring, face, moustache and glasses, if worn. For me that adds up to more than a quick 10 minute clean up. No showers in these days either, and even a quick dip in the bath must have led to a damp towel at the very least. The police were quite thorough with checking the bath and sink but came up with nothing.

As I see it, to clean up effectively Wallace would have needed more than a briefcase when he left his house. He would have been carrying a fair bundle out of the house had he been depositing a damp towel, bloodstained clothing and an iron bar, along with some insurance papers. The former three of those all had to be successfully hidden from scrutiny, in an urban environment, without attracting any undue attention and probably before he caught his first tram. The police combed the immediate area, as I understand, and drew a blank.

[RodCrosby]

cue the obsessive's tale of the ash-bin (behind the locked gate)...

(titters)

[ColdCaseJury]

Wallace was certainly that, arriving with ten minutes to spare... Perfectly innocent timing, to any reasonable mind.

Late=guilty, on time=guilty, early=guilty...

A good point, Rod. Assume Wallace was 22 minutes behind schedule because of Close. Had Close been on time, it would mean Wallace stepped off the tram in Menlove Avenue before 7PM. It appears a little excessive as trams were frequent and he would only need 15 minutes to find MGE if it had existed, one would think.

(A) If innocent, Wallace left at 6:45pm, with approx 30 minute journey, intending to arrive at approx 7:15pm.

(B) If guilty, he originally planned to arrive before 7PM (Wallace staying longer in the house is clearly not an option)

(C) If guilty, in actual fact, it was a remarkable coincidence that Close was 22 minutes late mimicking (A) almost to the minute.

The problem with this point, however, is we cannot be sure how much time Wallace would have allowed. It still admits of personal interpretation.

A counter might be that an innocent Wallace actually spent 45 minutes looking for the non-existent MGE. But of course, if innocent, Wallace would not have planned for this. But this then leads us into discussions about why Wallace did not consult a map beforehand, and why he continued his search after talking to Mather at 25 MGW at about 7:35PM.

What do others think?

[Herlock Sholmes]

HS,
We’ll have to disagree on the amount of time it would have taken Wallace to murder and then clean up. I have never been convinced by the mackintosh as a splash guard employed by the killer, any more than the naked Wallace scenario. Why bother to put it under the body after the attack?

I can see how a plastic screen would help greatly in avoiding blood staining, but some would surely have found its way on to clothing, particularly shoes and sleeves. Then there are the inevitable splashes on to the hands, wedding ring, face, moustache and glasses, if worn. For me that adds up to more than a quick 10 minute clean up. No showers in these days either, and even a quick dip in the bath must have led to a damp towel at the very least. The police were quite thorough with checking the bath and sink but came up with nothing.

As I see it, to clean up effectively Wallace would have needed more than a briefcase when he left his house. He would have been carrying a fair bundle out of the house had he been depositing a damp towel, bloodstained clothing and an iron bar, along with some insurance papers. The former three of those all had to be successfully hidden from scrutiny, in an urban environment, without attracting any undue attention and probably before he caught his first tram. The police combed the immediate area, as I understand, and drew a blank.

Hi Cobalt,

The mackintosh worn backwards plus an old pair of gloves and I’d say that Wallace would have been unlucky to have gotten any blood on him at all. He pushes the mackintosh under the body which serves to smear any blood spatter.

As an alternative suggestion for the presence of the mackintosh we have:

1. Julia had it over her shoulders against the cold - it’s almost impossible to see how, when Julia was found lying on her front, it ended up bunched up beneath her.

or,

2. She was wearing it. Either against the cold or because she was popping out under some pretext to escape the evil phantom. - How then did it end up bunched up beneath her body? We might also add, with all the coats available from the coat hooks, why would Julia choose her husband’s coat instead of her own?

That the mackintosh was used in some way during the crime makes far more sense than any other explaination. Apart from to the hopelessly biased of course.

[Herlock Sholmes]

A good point, Rod. Assume Wallace was 22 minutes behind schedule because of Close. Had Close been on time, it would mean Wallace stepped off the tram in Menlove Avenue before 7PM. It appears a little excessive as trams were frequent and he would only need 15 minutes to find MGE if it had existed, one would think.

(A) If innocent, Wallace left at 6:45pm, with approx 30 minute journey, intending to arrive at approx 7:15pm.

(B) If guilty, he originally planned to arrive before 7PM (Wallace staying longer in the house is clearly not an option)

(C) If guilty, in actual fact, it was a remarkable coincidence that Close was 22 minutes late mimicking (A) almost to the minute.

The problem with this point, however, is we cannot be sure how much time Wallace would have allowed. It still admits of personal interpretation.

A counter might be that an innocent Wallace actually spent 45 minutes looking for the non-existent MGE. But of course, if innocent, Wallace would not have planned for this. But this then leads us into discussions about why Wallace did not consult a map beforehand, and why he continued his search after talking to Mather at 25 MGW at about 7:35PM.

What do others think?

i have to disagree with B. Antony. If Close turned up at his normal time I don’t see why Wallace wouldn’t just kill Julia and leave the house at the time he’d planned to. Maybe the extra time would have allowed him to do more in terms of staging the robbery?

Of course we might ask why Wallace didn’t take the very simple expedient of checking the location/existence of MGE during the day as any reasonable person looking for an unknown address might do (cue some Rod contortions ) Then of course there’s Wallace’s remarkable persistence in looking for somewhere that he’d been told didn’t exist (cue a Rod ‘yawn’ followed by an outpouring of biased twaddle ) And of course there’s the fact that Wallace was more familiar with the area than he let on (cue Rod the parrot with ‘Disinformation...misinformation...pieces of eight )

My initial point about timing was actually about the Monday night and why, on this night of all nights, Wallace arrived at the club at exactly the time of the match deadline? Wallace was as close to late as he could have been without actually being late. Why, when he’d have been to the club hundreds of times and by tram?

Hands up who agrees with Rod’s ‘suggestion’ that Wallace would have planned to have gotten to his chess match at exactly the time of the deadline? Hang your straight jackets in the corner and vote now.

[ColdCaseJury]

i have to disagree with B. Antony. If Close turned up at his normal time I don’t see why Wallace wouldn’t just kill Julia and leave the house at the time he’d planned to. Maybe the extra time would have allowed him to do more in terms of staging the robbery?

So, you're suggesting his plan was always to leave at about 6:50PM? But, of course, if Close called on time at 6:20PM this means Wallace would have been in the house for 30 minutes before leaving and his defence is severely weakened. Perhaps I've missed your point.