Move to Murder: Who Killed Julia Wallace?

[WallaceWackedHer]

This case raises so many questions...

I like Abby's answer, considering the burns on the skirt and mackintosh. Though had she have fallen forward onto something hard like the fireplace (after being wacked from behind), one would have expected her to hit her head and have injuries on the front side as well. Establishing a more definite idea of how the crime happened may be helpful.

E.g., if she was bending down to light the fire (which if she was I'm guessing she was successful in going, given the burns), I think it's a very safe assumption she did not know there was a dangerous person in the home at the time. There were spent (?) matches found underneath her body to support that she had just lit it.

I used Rod's blueprint to try and recreate the crime scene and where the blood splatter was found based on what you just told me, please advise on the accuracy:

https://i.imgur.com/z4jUbm7.png

Knowing of the burns, I think it is safe to assume that something about the way she fell or was moved meant that her skirt ended up in the fire briefly.

I think the burglary is very likely staged, and so we can't rule out staging of the body to make it look as though something different has happened either... I would say that the spray on the wall must certainly be the direction she was attacked from (and then the lower body rotated into a different position) - except she was hit anywhere between 4 and 11 times, so that splatter could have been from any of the blows... Not sure if splatter like that still occurs after the heart stops beating...

I don't think Wallace necessarily did it, it's his own unusual behavior which implicates him. I think most of the prosecution case revolved around exposing false statements and pointing out odd (as an example, alibi-mongering) type behavior. Knowing all of his actions and his changing stories, coupled with the likely staging of the scene, it seems very hard to believe he had no hand in it whatsoever... In a different situation where he'd been lured by note to Menlove West and his wife struck down in the hall or kitchen, and didn't falter from his story, I think I'd be inclined to believe his innocence... With her in the parlor and all the other things the same, I'd still feel he may have been innocent, but I think it almost completely rules out the idea of a burglary as a primary motive unless the burglar intended to kill her first.

That is unlikely, as it's suggested a bar or poker were used to hit her. Would a burglar preparing to kill someone come so unprepared as to have to rely on using items found in the victim's home to carry out the attack?

Most burglars only kill when panicked, and considering Julia was seemingly minding her own business in the parlor, I strongly suspect it was an assassination, with a staged robbery to divert police attention.

As far as the staging of the robbery goes, it is perhaps the worst in the history of the world... A replaced cash box, a door needlessly ripped off (lol), no other super easy to reach valuables stolen. It's a borderline pathetic attempt... I'd suggest people look more into people who might have a motive to murder her. She wasn't exactly a nice woman, she surely had her share of enemies.

[Herlock Sholmes]

But what exactly is he checking for upstairs, Herlock? If he went upstairs to the bathroom after the attack to clean-up, I think there are timing issues connected to his guilt (save this for later). If he did not clean up upstairs, he presumably did not go upstairs after the attack and hence got out of the house quite quickly. So what's he checking again when he comes back? Tongue-in-cheek, to make sure all the hats are were arranged just so on Julia's bed?

I'm happy to leave this point on the agree to disagree pile, HS, but I know you feel quite strongly about this so I think it is only fair to invite you to give the details in case I'm missing something.

I think that you’re right in that we will have to park this on the ‘agree to disagree’ pile Antony. A suggestion that I’ve mentioned is - what if Wallace had earlier brought down from his lab a container of chemicals in case he needed to wash away some blood. A combination of planning (the use of the mackintosh and possibly gloves) and a bit of good fortune however meant that he didn’t need it. In the heat of the moment he forgot to return the chemicals to his lab. When he entered the back kitchen he sees the container and realises that he needs to put the container back.
Maybe there was something that we just can’t name that Wallace wanted to check. Maybe Wallace just wanted an extra couple of minutes to gather his thoughts and to prepare himself for ‘discovering’ Julia.

I genuinely think that this is a point against Wallace.

[Herlock Sholmes]

im thinking as shes bending down lighting the fire she gets wacked, falls into it (hence the burnt mac and skirt) and is pulled out and thrown to the floor.

I think some variation of that suggestion is correct Abby. An initial blow. Julia falls against the fire. The killer pulls her away from the fire.

[WallaceWackedHer]

I think that you’re right in that we will have to park this on the ‘agree to disagree’ pile Antony. A suggestion that I’ve mentioned is - what if Wallace had earlier brought down from his lab a container of chemicals in case he needed to wash away some blood. A combination of planning (the use of the mackintosh and possibly gloves) and a bit of good fortune however meant that he didn’t need it. In the heat of the moment he forgot to return the chemicals to his lab. When he entered the back kitchen he sees the container and realises that he needs to put the container back.
Maybe there was something that we just can’t name that Wallace wanted to check. Maybe Wallace just wanted an extra couple of minutes to gather his thoughts and to prepare himself for ‘discovering’ Julia.

I genuinely think that this is a point against Wallace.

Time to gather his thoughts make sense.

It seems as though the Johnston's coming out of their home was totally unforeseen, and therefore if he did do it, perhaps the unexpected event rattled him a bit. On the other hand, given the time of night and the lights being turned out, it would make sense for his sick wife to be in bed. Still - you would expect him to make a lot of commotion as soon as that back door opened and he saw the cabinet door ripped off etc. and already thought there was a criminal in the home, not slink around silently and slowly, calling out weakly "Julia?" a couple of times lol.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I like Abby's answer, considering the burns on the skirt and mackintosh. Though had she have fallen forward onto something hard like the fireplace (after being wacked from behind), one would have expected her to hit her head and have injuries on the front side as well. Establishing a more definite idea of how the crime happened may be helpful.

E.g., if she was bending down to light the fire (which if she was I'm guessing she was successful in going, given the burns), I think it's a very safe assumption she did not know there was a dangerous person in the home at the time. There were spent (?) matches found underneath her body to support that she had just lit it.

I used Rod's blueprint to try and recreate the crime scene and where the blood splatter was found based on what you just told me, please advise on the accuracy:

https://i.imgur.com/z4jUbm7.png

Knowing of the burns, I think it is safe to assume that something about the way she fell or was moved meant that her skirt ended up in the fire briefly.

I think the burglary is very likely staged, and so we can't rule out staging of the body to make it look as though something different has happened either... I would say that the spray on the wall must certainly be the direction she was attacked from (and then the lower body rotated into a different position) - except she was hit anywhere between 4 and 11 times, so that splatter could have been from any of the blows... Not sure if splatter like that still occurs after the heart stops beating...

I don't think Wallace necessarily did it, it's his own unusual behavior which implicates him. I think most of the prosecution case revolved around exposing false statements and pointing out odd (as an example, alibi-mongering) type behavior. Knowing all of his actions and his changing stories, coupled with the likely staging of the scene, it seems very hard to believe he had no hand in it whatsoever... In a different situation where he'd been lured by note to Menlove West and his wife struck down in the hall or kitchen, and didn't falter from his story, I think I'd be inclined to believe his innocence... With her in the parlor and all the other things the same, I'd still feel he may have been innocent, but I think it almost completely rules out the idea of a burglary as a primary motive unless the burglar intended to kill her first.

That is unlikely, as it's suggested a bar or poker were used to hit her. Would a burglar preparing to kill someone come so unprepared as to have to rely on using items found in the victim's home to carry out the attack?

Most burglars only kill when panicked, and considering Julia was seemingly minding her own business in the parlor, I strongly suspect it was an assassination, with a staged robbery to divert police attention.

As far as the staging of the robbery goes, it is perhaps the worst in the history of the world... A replaced cash box, a door needlessly ripped off (lol), no other super easy to reach valuables stolen. It's a borderline pathetic attempt... I'd suggest people look more into people who might have a motive to murder her. She wasn't exactly a nice woman, she surely had her share of enemies.

Another important point WWH is the position of the mackintosh. Bunched up beneath Julia’s body. The contention is often made that Julia had the mackintosh over her shoulders against the cold but can anyone really see a set of circumstance where Julia was knocked to the floor, fell on her front, and the mackintosh wound up bunched up beneath her? It’s pretty much impossible to do. The mackintosh definitely looks as though it was put there deliberately. Why would a stranger killer bother to do this?

[Abby Normal]

I like Abby's answer, considering the burns on the skirt and mackintosh. Though had she have fallen forward onto something hard like the fireplace (after being wacked from behind), one would have expected her to hit her head and have injuries on the front side as well. Establishing a more definite idea of how the crime happened may be helpful.

E.g., if she was bending down to light the fire (which if she was I'm guessing she was successful in going, given the burns), I think it's a very safe assumption she did not know there was a dangerous person in the home at the time. There were spent (?) matches found underneath her body to support that she had just lit it.

I used Rod's blueprint to try and recreate the crime scene and where the blood splatter was found based on what you just told me, please advise on the accuracy:

https://i.imgur.com/z4jUbm7.png

Knowing of the burns, I think it is safe to assume that something about the way she fell or was moved meant that her skirt ended up in the fire briefly.

I think the burglary is very likely staged, and so we can't rule out staging of the body to make it look as though something different has happened either... I would say that the spray on the wall must certainly be the direction she was attacked from (and then the lower body rotated into a different position) - except she was hit anywhere between 4 and 11 times, so that splatter could have been from any of the blows... Not sure if splatter like that still occurs after the heart stops beating...

I don't think Wallace necessarily did it, it's his own unusual behavior which implicates him. I think most of the prosecution case revolved around exposing false statements and pointing out odd (as an example, alibi-mongering) type behavior. Knowing all of his actions and his changing stories, coupled with the likely staging of the scene, it seems very hard to believe he had no hand in it whatsoever... In a different situation where he'd been lured by note to Menlove West and his wife struck down in the hall or kitchen, and didn't falter from his story, I think I'd be inclined to believe his innocence... With her in the parlor and all the other things the same, I'd still feel he may have been innocent, but I think it almost completely rules out the idea of a burglary as a primary motive unless the burglar intended to kill her first.

That is unlikely, as it's suggested a bar or poker were used to hit her. Would a burglar preparing to kill someone come so unprepared as to have to rely on using items found in the victim's home to carry out the attack?

Most burglars only kill when panicked, and considering Julia was seemingly minding her own business in the parlor, I strongly suspect it was an assassination, with a staged robbery to divert police attention.

As far as the staging of the robbery goes, it is perhaps the worst in the history of the world... A replaced cash box, a door needlessly ripped off (lol), no other super easy to reach valuables stolen. It's a borderline pathetic attempt... I'd suggest people look more into people who might have a motive to murder her. She wasn't exactly a nice woman, she surely had her share of enemies.

hi wwH

I don't think Wallace necessarily did it, it's his own unusual behavior which implicates him.

I don't see a lot of unusual behavior with Wallace I only really see one, but for me its a wopper. The business about not knowing the bar and poker were missing, and the fact that his maid had to bring it up to police. out of everything he said and did-this really stands out to me.

[Abby Normal]

I think some variation of that suggestion is correct Abby. An initial blow. Julia falls against the fire. The killer pulls her away from the fire.

yup and this scenario works whether Wallace killed her or not.

[WallaceWackedHer]

yup and this scenario works whether Wallace killed her or not.

The fact the mackintosh was partly burned seems to suggest it was also on her when she fell or was moved. Perhaps it was thrown over her head and somehow slipped into the fire as she fell down.

If she fell down front on to the fire, her skirt would be well out of the way, it'd be her upper body that would've fallen into it. Unless it was burned while the body was moved, I can't think of any way here body could have fallen that would've put her skirt into the fire.

On the note of the mack, there's a South Korean serial killer who wore a yellow raincoat and hat and bludgeoned people to death with a hammer wrapped in newspaper. The coat was able to protect him from the splatter, and the newspaper kept the blood off of the weapon.

[etenguy]

yup and this scenario works whether Wallace killed her or not.

The murder appears to have been a frenzy of blows, one after the other. So is it likely that the killer stopped to move the body and then restarted reigning down blows? The blood would suggest all the blows, apart from the first, were applied where she fell, or where her head was when the body was found. The singe marks on the skirt would suggest contact against the hot fire grate for a good few seconds.

Do we know which part of the mackintosh was burnt? I am struggling to visualise how the fall and burning occurred, and whether the burn pattern suggests Julia had the mackintosh around her shoulders or was being held/worn by someone else.

[ColdCaseJury]

The murder appears to have been a frenzy of blows, one after the other. So is it likely that the killer stopped to move the body and then restarted reigning down blows? The blood would suggest all the blows, apart from the first, were applied where she fell, or where her head was when the body was found. The singe marks on the skirt would suggest contact against the hot fire grate for a good few seconds.

Do we know which part of the mackintosh was burnt? I am struggling to visualise how the fall and burning occurred, and whether the burn pattern suggests Julia had the mackintosh around her shoulders or was being held/worn by someone else.

The pace of this thread is still like a fast flowing river. How many is a "frenzy of blows" (sounds like a good collective noun to me). Do you accept MacFall's trial testimony of 11 blows or his written post mortem report of 3-4?

Mackintosh was burnt bottom right. Another poster suggested it was an unlikely coincidence that the mackintosh and the skirt were burnt separately. This sounds plausible to me, at least, but what does this suggest happened?

[Herlock Sholmes]

The fact the mackintosh was partly burned seems to suggest it was also on her when she fell or was moved. Perhaps it was thrown over her head and somehow slipped into the fire as she fell down.

If she fell down front on to the fire, her skirt would be well out of the way, it'd be her upper body that would've fallen into it. Unless it was burned while the body was moved, I can't think of any way here body could have fallen that would've put her skirt into the fire.

On the note of the mack, there's a South Korean serial killer who wore a yellow raincoat and hat and bludgeoned people to death with a hammer wrapped in newspaper. The coat was able to protect him from the splatter, and the newspaper kept the blood off of the weapon.

Or that Julia was handing over the mackintosh to William and as he bent to pick up the iron bar part of it hung in the fire catching light. Then as William and Julia were patting out the flames Wallace struck her and she fell against the fire burning her dress. William then pulled her unconscious body away from the fire.

Or maybe as Wallace struck the first blow Julia instinctively put her hands up and unintentionally pulled the mackintosh away from William. She then fell against the fire pulling the mackintosh with her causing the burning to the mackintosh and her dress simultaneously?

[ColdCaseJury]

From the BBC news website: "A 56-year-old woman has been eaten by pigs after collapsing in their pen, Russian media report. After venturing out to feed the animals in a village in the central Russian region of Udmurtia, the farmer reportedly fainted or suffered an epileptic seizure. Her husband later found the body. She reportedly died of blood loss. Their farm is in a village in the Malopurginsky district of Udmurtia, east of the city of Kazan. Local media say the husband had gone to bed early the day before as he was feeling unwell. After waking to find his wife missing, he came upon her body in the pen. Media reports say an investigation into the incident has been launched."

If I was forced to say what happened, I would say the husband probably killed wife and then put her dead body into the pig pen. I say this in case other posters believe I might be biased in favour of husbands! Just out of interest, what do you think? Of course, the appropriate response is to wait till all the evidence is in but please humour me!

[WallaceWackedHer]

The murder appears to have been a frenzy of blows, one after the other. So is it likely that the killer stopped to move the body and then restarted reigning down blows? The blood would suggest all the blows, apart from the first, were applied where she fell, or where her head was when the body was found. The singe marks on the skirt would suggest contact against the hot fire grate for a good few seconds.

Do we know which part of the mackintosh was burnt? I am struggling to visualise how the fall and burning occurred, and whether the burn pattern suggests Julia had the mackintosh around her shoulders or was being held/worn by someone else.

Yes it's very confusing. If the jacket was thrown over her head it could have fallen into the fire as she went down. It is quite difficult to visualize how the crime occurred.

We'd probably have to reach out to forensic scientists or homicide detectives to crack how it happened, showing them where blood was found etc.

I can't understand how her skirt got in the fire no matter what ai envision.

The killing is just so clean. It's not just the perpetrator seemingly staying clean. Look at that crime scene, it's impeccably tidy except a pool of blood around the head. I don't even see the splatters on the walls.

Where do you think Julia was standing and where in relation to her do you think the killer stood? Is it agreed that the body was moved?

She did have matches too which if lit might explain it?

[WallaceWackedHer]

Or that Julia was handing over the mackintosh to William and as he bent to pick up the iron bar part of it hung in the fire catching light. Then as William and Julia were patting out the flames Wallace struck her and she fell against the fire burning her dress. William then pulled her unconscious body away from the fire.

Or maybe as Wallace struck the first blow Julia instinctively put her hands up and unintentionally pulled the mackintosh away from William. She then fell against the fire pulling the mackintosh with her causing the burning to the mackintosh and her dress simultaneously?

Maybe but the mack was in the hall by the front door, if he was going out she'd probably expect him to get it himself lol (not that it means she wouldn't get it anyway). I don't think she was wearing it to protect against the cold though, that seems ridic, it's legit like the least comfortable thing you could wrap around yourself lol. It'd be like someone wearing denim jeans as a scarf.

Btw she was hit to the back of the head right? So I think she didn't see it coming and wouldn't have raised her hands. The lack of defensive wounds would also probably suggest that IMO... Although about the see it coming thing, we mustn't forget the room had two mirrors. One just above the fire, and one by the door, so it is feasible she could see it coming while facing away I admit.

Might be worth posting the crime scene photos on Reddit, on the forensics sub. I'm on mobile now though.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Maybe but the mack was in the hall by the front door, if he was going out she'd probably expect him to get it himself lol (not that it means she wouldn't get it anyway). I don't think she was wearing it to protect against the cold though, that seems ridic, it's legit like the least comfortable thing you could wrap around yourself lol. It'd be like someone wearing denim jeans as a scarf.

Btw she was hit to the back of the head right? So I think she didn't see it coming and wouldn't have raised her hands. The lack of defensive wounds would also probably suggest that IMO... Although about the see it coming thing, we mustn't forget the room had two mirrors. One just above the fire, and one by the door, so it is feasible she could see it coming while facing away I admit.

Might be worth posting the crime scene photos on Reddit, on the forensics sub. I'm on mobile now though.

WWH,

As you’re a new poster you won’t know but my suggestion is that Wallace used the mackintosh to shield himself from blood spatter. Either by wearing it (possibly backwards like a surgeons gown) or draped over his left arm held in place with his left hand. By holding his arm horizontally across the chin/mouth area and by kneeling near to Julia to carry out the blows the mackintosh would have hung down to the carpet leaving only part of William’s face and his right arm vulnerable.

As to how the mackintosh got into the Parlour I believe that as Julia was finishing off with the milk boy William went into the Parlour and was at the mirror pretending to check his appearance, adjust his tie etc. When he heard the door close he called out to Julia asking if she would mind bringing his mackintosh in.