JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[GBinOz]

Hi George,

Okay, but you do see, then, that it worked with an entry wound in the back of his neck rather than slightly below it. That’s a start.
Skipping over our respective definitions of "slightly below", it worked with an entry in the back of the neck, but only, as stated by Myers himself at about 0:34 in his video, if Connolly was turning to his right. The frame of the ZF after emerging from behind the traffic sign shows the president has already been hit, and shows Connolly facing forward and still holding his hat, which he could not have done with a shattered wrist bone. So for Myers recreation to work he had to have another bullet after the first bullet hit the president to allow Connolly to turn around. By then the president was already slumping to the left. Like yourself, I prefer evidence presented by the ones who had reason to professionally & personally examine it. Humes and O"Neill both saw the actual wounds in the body and said they couldn't see how the SBT could work. Humes said the back wound terminated in the body. LBJ and Hoover thought the SBT to be "B******t. The Connollys never believed it. The SBT was the invention of Arlen Specter so the WC could restrict the assassination to three shots. AFAIK, it is not supported by medical evidence.

Looking at photos of the limousine taken in the minutes before the assassination, we can see he wasn’t sitting straight up but slightly bent forward and even if he was sitting straight up, he didn’t have a back that went in a straight line from his neck down, as the picture below clearly shows.

Without wishing to be disagreeable, it appears to me that the line of Jackie's back almost perfectly parallels that of the president.


So, in my opinion, there should be no discussion about this and, therefore, the fact that his back and neck area were at least at some angle with a purely vertical line.
No more discussion shall there be, here at least.

I have no idea what those two marks are supposed to represent, I’ve never come across an explanation for those. In fact, they’re odd as they’re not to be seen in any of the photos.
Agreed.

All the best,
Frank

Hi Frank,

This is, as you know, the McClelland diagram:



Here is the FPP diagram:



Here are models made up to show the head wounds.





To my eye there is some consistency between the models and a combination of the McClelland and FPP diagrams.

But what of the fact that there don't appear to be these gaping wounds on the ZF. These are from the autopsy:





The blood matted hair is covering the cavity in the skull, even at close range. The photos do appear to show the flap of scalp that I referred to in an earlier post

I have found this video, which is the clearest that I have seen:

https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/399694535690037831/

A couple of frames (unfortunately they aren't numbered) after the explosive shot and the violent head movement back and to the rear, there is another substantial movement of the head in a forward direction. This is what is proposed by Josiah Thompson, and supported by audio synchronisation, but I see it far more clearly in this video than in Thompson's.

It is always a pleasure to debate with you Frank. It does appear that we may be residing in separate trenches for the foreseeable future, but that's fine. I'm not trying to persuade you either, just presenting the data and evidence from which I have formed my opinion.

Best regards, George.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The master manipulator. "Standing on the back of a Pullman dining car" becomes "seen near a Pullman car". The Pullman car speculated to have been abandoned near the overpass with Mrs Desroe standing nearby, conveniently placed so that the guard could nip along the picket fence to see no assassins. Discount entirely that the Pullman car was most likely in the marshalling yard over at the end of the rail line, and Desroe was talking about not seeing anyone behind the TSBD.

I am not dismissing any of the witnesses, I am looking at what 3 witnesses actually said and dismissing your ridiculous assertion that the Pullman car was in the area behind the picket fence.

Typically of a conspiracy theorist in that you nitpick on a piece of phrasing as if ‘being near a Pullman’ and ‘standing on one,’ is an issue - both indicate a man…both indicate a Pullman Car. Yet you do your own bit of manipulating when you suggest that Desroe was talking specifically about behind the TSBD. Townes said: “Desroe responded to questions from the crowd asking if he had observed anyone in the vicinity.”

And now we have a post from Cobalt containing an article by a conspiracy theorists claiming that there was actually a train there.

So which is correct? My suggestion that Towner could have just walked a few yard to the track to the left of the car park or the CT’s article saying that there was not only a track there but that there was also a train?

Either way……we don’t appear to have any reason for dismissing Desroe or his statement.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Let’s dismiss the Conspiracy suggestion shall we?

What do we know that our conspirators aim was according to CT’s? This at least has to be something that we can all agree on? So….

By setting up the sniper’s nest, by planting the rifle and by planting the shells they were clearly trying to prove to everyone that Lee Harvey Oswald killed Kennedy after firing 3 shots from the 6th floor of the TSBD…..can we at least agree on that?

We know when Kennedy was shot (just after 12.30)

We know when the bullet (c399) was found in the stretcher at Parkland Hospital by Darrell Tomlinson (around 1.20)

So it was found less than 50 minutes after the assassination by which time no search or investigation had been done and no one knew anything about where the bullets or bullet fragments were and they definitely couldn’t have known how many there were…….surely we can agree on that?

So, I’ll ask 2 questions.

1. As the point is regularly made that a bullet that passed through a body (or bodies) wouldn’t have been ‘almost pristine,’ why would a conspirator have planted a bullet that would cause such doubts to be raised? Why didn’t they simply fire it through an animal carcass before planting it or use some other method of ‘damaging’ it? Could anything have been simpler for a plotter?

2. Even more serious and more telling……why would a conspirator who is part of a plot to prove 3 shots from Oswald (per the shells) have planted a bullet before the rest of the bullets were located (especially when they knew that there was a second gunman) For example, what if they had found a bullet inside Kennedy, one inside Connally and one somewhere inside the car (the upholstery or the bodywork of the car for eg)

The stretcher bullet would have meant that there were at least 4 bullets…..with only 3 shells on the 6th floor……therefore 2 gunman.

Therefore no conspirator could possibly have done this.

Therefore the stretcher bullet could not have been planted by conspirators.

Therefor……No conspiracy.

[caz]

Be warned PI,

Your opponents are now writing in BLUE ink! I think that used to be the colour of choice for poison pen letters.

I thought it was green, with lots of underlining, but no matter. The point is that blue is only used to distinguish who is doing the 'talking' when replies appear within someone else's original post. I don't care for the practice myself, but it's pretty clear why it happens, so there was no need for the childish insult.

Caz called me out the other day for using an analogy about boxing. Today she uses one of her own about the difference between the speed of light and the speed of sound. Which is perfectly valid but rather like the boxing ring, I doubt she has ever been in an area where fists or bullets were flying and animal instinct took over. If half of the people in Dealey Plaza thought the shots were coming from the Grassy Knoll they were probably relying on their sense of self preservation. Ditto those who thought they were coming from the TSBD. They were both right so far as I can judge, and the best positioned witnesses like Sam Holland and Jesse Curry recognised they were coming from both areas.

I predicted this would be the response and no, luckily I've only watched boxing on the telly and people being fired at on the tv news. But when animal instinct takes over, and self preservation is the order of the day, a boxer will fight back, but as a bystander when a gun goes off, I suspect my own instincts would not be to run towards where the bullets seem to be coming from. As I said before, I'm a coward when it comes to firearms.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Why would conspirators have gunmen firing from different directions when they knew that the bullet wounds would have been examined minutely? One gunman from one spot would have eliminated this massive and totally unnecessary risk.

Because the conspirators apparently didn't have the common sense of a small child, Herlock - but then they also had the luck of the very devil.

Who would seriously hope to set up Oswald beforehand as a patsy, knowing he wouldn't have a gun with him on the day, and that at least two gunmen would be firing bullets from different locations and directions? How could they have predicted that this would not matter in the slightest, because an extensive cover-up exercise would begin immediately after the event, with the same ends in mind - to get Oswald accused of acting alone, with the bullets coming only from the TSBD?

I thought for a while that two separate conspiracies with different aims and motivations - one before the shooting and one afterwards - might be slightly less problematic than one giant plot, but you've shot that down in flames with your observation.

If Oswald's hands were clean, JFK was not the only one surrounded on all sides by enemies: "Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for me".

Love,

Caz
X

[Herlock Sholmes]

Because the conspirators apparently didn't have the common sense of a small child, Herlock - but then they also had the luck of the very devil.

Who would seriously hope to set up Oswald beforehand as a patsy, knowing he wouldn't have a gun with him on the day, and that at least two gunmen would be firing bullets from different locations and directions? How could they have predicted that this would not matter in the slightest, because an extensive cover-up exercise would begin immediately after the event, with the same ends in mind - to get Oswald accused of acting alone, with the bullets coming only from the TSBD?

I thought for a while that two separate conspiracies with different aims and motivations - one before the shooting and one afterwards - might be slightly less problematic than one giant plot, but you've shot that down in flames with your observation.

If Oswald's hands were clean, JFK was not the only one surrounded on all sides by enemies: "Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for me".

Love,

Caz
X

This is an ongoing problem with the conspiracy theorists which they are absolutely blind to Caz. On one hand they present us with sophisticated almost omnipotent plotters who can control witnesses (like ‘forcing’ Frazier and Randles to lie about Oswald mentioning curtain rods, and Marina and Ruth Paine about saying that Oswald had a rifle in the garage) they can forge handwriting (Oswald’s note in Russian, the rifle and revolver orders, the writing on the back of the Neely Street photo) they can fake photographs, x-rays and the Zapruder film and then convince an unknown but huge amount of people to play their part in a treasonous murder plot, and yet these same geniuses are also complete and utter dimwits.

They parade a completely different rifle to the one planted in front of the whole world.

They place a gunman at a location in Dealey Plaza (the Grassy Knoll) where he’s most likely to have been seen (or photographed or filmed)

They plant a bullet which could very easily have scuppered the ‘Oswald alone’ plot.

They take care (with less than 2 hours notice) assemble at Bethesda Hospital 3 corrupt Pathologists (it’s easy to put your hand on a corrupt pathologist of course, I’m forever bumping into them) corrupt staff and corrupt military men, photographers and radiographers and yet…..they make no such provision at Parkland (where they knew from the start Kennedy would be taken) Even a certifiable looney would have seen that this makes no sense. It’s like putting on all of the protective mountaineering gear then greasing your boots and gloves, strapping a fridge to your back and slipping on a blindfold!

Who could believe this stuff?

[Herlock Sholmes]

And I almost forget (and as some posts have disappeared)

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/t...ed-by-the-cia/

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/t...y-this-agency/

http://mccone-rowley.blogspot.com/

Still not a single response or acknowledgement from George, Fishy, PI or Cobalt on this Caz. The four that yell ‘fake’ at everything without proof. I post proof that they’ve been using a fake as evidence and there’s not a peep from them. That’s their version of integrity.

[Herlock Sholmes]

To my eye there is some consistency between the models and a combination of the McClelland and FPP diagrams.

The McClelland photo that he himself admitted was misleading? By the same Dr. McClelland who at 4.45 on the day of the assassination wrote that Kennedy had been shot in the left hand side of his head.

I can see why you repeatedly quote him.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

And I almost forget (and as some posts have disappeared)

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/t...ed-by-the-cia/

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/t...y-this-agency/

http://mccone-rowley.blogspot.com/

Still not a single response or acknowledgement from George, Fishy, PI or Cobalt on this Caz. The four that yell ‘fake’ at everything without proof. I post proof that they’ve been using a fake as evidence and there’s not a peep from them. That’s their version of integrity.

As so many posted comments have been lost due to the unfortunate system interruption, new readers will be unaware that you recently accused me repeatedly of having lied and also of making things up.

You are now accusing me of having used fake evidence.

As I pointed out previously, I have never referred to that document nor claimed it as evidence of anything.

When I did make that point before, you reacted heatedly and alleged that the conversation had nothing to do with me and that I had no justification for interrupting it.

I repeat that the evidence to which I have referred is that it was widely known among staff at the CIA station in Tokyo that Oswald had been a CIA operative.

You did not ask to see the evidence of that nor deny that it exists.

[Fiver]

Please see my replies below.


I can see how the poor reactions of Roy Kellerman and William Greer when shots rang out in Dealey Plaza might appear suspicious but I think PI is going too far in accusing them of being part of a conspiracy.


Have you seen the film of what is now called the Secret Service Stand-down?

It shows Emory Roberts calling back Clint Hill and Don Lawton, who were about to mount the platforms at the back of the presidential limousine, seconds before the assassination.

If he had not done so, the assassination could hardly have been successful.

Do you not find that suspicious?

Men positioned on the rear of Kennedy's limo would have provided no protection against a shot from the Grassy Knoll.

Don Lawton was in the lead car ahead of Kennedy's limo. The men in positions to mount the back of Kennedy's limo were Clint Hill and Jack Ready. Hill reacted immediately and barely made it. Ready did not.

The Altgens photo shows that at the point JFK was hit in the throat, Ready was facing backwards towards the Book Depository, trying to the determine where the shots were coming from. This confirms Ready's testimony that "I heard what appeared to be fire crackers going off from my position. I immediately turned to my right rear trying to locate the source but was not able to determine the exact location. At this time the US Secret Service follow-up car seemed to slow and I heard someone from inside this car say: "he's shot." I left the follow-up car in the direction of the President's car but was recalled by ATSAIC Emory Roberts (Secret Service) as the cars increased their speeds. I got back on the car and seated myself beside Mr. Roberts in the right front seat."

Ready's testimony makes it clear he only left the follow up car after Kennedy was shot in the head.

[Fiver]

I repeat that the evidence to which I have referred is that it was widely known among staff at the CIA station in Tokyo that Oswald had been a CIA operative.

You did not ask to see the evidence of that nor deny that it exists.

Feel free to provide any evidence that "it was widely known among staff at the CIA station in Tokyo that Oswald had been a CIA operative".

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Please see my replies below.

Men positioned on the rear of Kennedy's limo would have provided no protection against a shot from the Grassy Knoll.

That is not correct.

Had they been positioned on those platforms before the first shot was heard, they would have been in a position to offer complete protection by the time the Grassy Knoll shot was fired.

Don Lawton was in the lead car ahead of Kennedy's limo. The men in positions to mount the back of Kennedy's limo were Clint Hill and Jack Ready. Hill reacted immediately and barely made it. Ready did not.

As I stated, two agents, one of whom was Clint Hill, were called back by Emory Roberts, as they were about to mount the platforms - Hill the one furthest from Zapruder.

Some have speculated that the other was Henry Rybka, but Hill has identified him as Don Lawton.

[Herlock Sholmes]

As so many posted comments have been lost due to the unfortunate system interruption, new readers will be unaware that you recently accused me repeatedly of having lied and also of making things up.

You are now accusing me of having used fake evidence.

As I pointed out previously, I have never referred to that document nor claimed it as evidence of anything.

When I did make that point before, you reacted heatedly and alleged that the conversation had nothing to do with me and that I had no justification for interrupting it.

I repeat that the evidence to which I have referred is that it was widely known among staff at the CIA station in Tokyo that Oswald had been a CIA operative.

You did not ask to see the evidence of that nor deny that it exists.

Im not interested in rumours. Why are they reliable when the people that prove that Oswald was in Mexico City (as he certainly was) are all mistaken or lying?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Im not interested in rumours. Why are they reliable when the people that prove that Oswald was in Mexico City (as he certainly was) are all mistaken or lying?

Three witnesses described the man who claimed to be Oswald in Mexico City as being blond and two described him as being in his 30s.

What do you say to that?

[Herlock Sholmes]

There are 4 separate pieces of film footage which prove that the limousine categorically did not stop.

It was only travelling at 11 mph for gods sake. How crap was this gunman who couldn’t hit a target a few yards away crawling along with needed the car at a complete stop. It’s insane and sad that this baseless character assassination goes on.