JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Fiver]

I am sure we are all dying to see your evidence that LBJ disagreed with the SBT.

I have posted it before.

Here it is again.

https://www.nytimes.com/1994/04/17/us/johnson-said-he-doubted-finding-on-assassination.html

[Fiver]

Why do you think McCone was so uncooperative with the investigation?

Feel free to show that McCone was uncooperative with the investigation into JFK's death.

I don't think anyone believes that.

LBJ kept on all Cabinet members - including RFK. RFK didn't resign until 8 months later when LBJ announced that he wasn't considering any of his Cabinet members as a potential Vice President.

LBJ and Hoover could count on Warren, Ford and Dulles to steer the Commission towards a pre-determined verdict.

LBJ's closest supporter on the Commission was Senator Russell. Neither Russell nor LBJ ever accepted the Single Bullet Theory.

Hoover wasn't wedded to the Single Bullet Theory or the Lone Gunman Theory. Hoover initially thought JFK and Connally were hit by separate bullets and that the Cubans might be involved.

US Supreme Court Justices are appointed for life. Warren could not be counted on by LBJ or Hoover to steer the Commission where they wanted it to go. Dulles was former CIA - he certainly wouldn't do any favors for the FBI. Ford does seem to have sharing information with the FBI, but he was a junior member of the Commission.

[Fiver]

According to Earlene Roberts' affidavit, Oswald was standing at a bus stop near her home at somewhere in the region of 1.05 p.m.

Earlene Roberts said that:
* Oswald arrived at approximately 1pm.
* Oswald left a few minutes later.
* About a half-hour after that three police officers arrived.

But the police didn't arrive at 1:30, they arrived at around 3pm.

So Mrs Roberts was obviously rather bad at estimating time.

According to Domingo Benavides' testimony, the shooting of Tippit could not have taken place later than about 1.12 p.m.

That's your interpretation of Benavides' testimony, with a five minute gap between the shooting and Benavides trying to use Tippet's police radio. That seems too long to me, but the big problem is humans aren't very good at time estimates. We get even worse at time estimations related to traumatic events, like seeing someone shot. The phenomenon is called Tachypsychia.

How could Oswald have got to the scene of Tippit's shooting in less than seven minutes and why would he have done so?

It makes more sense than Butch Burroughs claiming Oswald entered the Texas Theater before he left Roberts' rooming house. Perhaps Oswald hitched a ride on a passing blue police box?

As to what Oswald was doing, we can never know. The bus transfer he had in his pocket was good to 1:15. If he could make it to the right transfer point, Oswald could have taken a Greyhound bus to Waco, Austin, or San Antonio.

[Fiver]

We do know that Oswald and Tippit had been in the same cafe two days prior when Oswald had mouthed off about his 'eggs over light' so maybe Tippit remembered him and just wanted to make a point. But the man was probably not Oswald.

My understanding is that the Dobb's Cafe incident supposedly happened at about 10:00 A.M. Wednesday, November 20th. That's hours after Oswald normally started work and a half-hour round trip away from Tippit's patrol route. Police records also show that Tippit was on a call at the Aluminum Screen Manufacturing Company at 800 East Illinois Ave between 9:56am and 10:17am on the 22nd.

3. Why was Tippit shot? He seemed to making run of the mill enquiries according to his actions and witness testimony, yet something changed in the mood of this and he exited the car with, we are told, his hand on his revolver. [I have no idea how reliable this claim is, but he did clearly leave the vehicle.] I can see a reason for Oswald shooting Tippit, fearing he was to be executed himself. But since I think Oswald was in the cinema at this point, I still struggle to see why any other Dallas man walking down the street would have had a reason to shoot Tippit either, although Tippit's actions after the assassination are open to a wide interpretation.

Butch Burroughs claims put Oswald in the Texas Theater before Oswald left Earlene Roberts' rooming house. Burrough's statement also makes no sense based on the timing - Buying a ticket at 1PM would be buying a ticket for a movie with less than 20 minutes left to run. Buying popcorn at 1:15 would be walking out of the climax of a movie to buy popcorn.

[Fiver]

Four shots were fired into Tippit. Bullets recovered were 3 Winchester and 1 Remington. The original radio call-in identified the casings as 38 Auto, later to become just 38, 2 Winchester and 2 Remington. Also found was a wallet containing credit cards and a driver's licence in Oswald's name, and an ID for A Hidell. So according to the WC, Oswald had shot Tippit with 4 shots from a revolver, opened the cylinder and picked out the expended casings and thrown them on the ground, and then took out his wallet and threw that on the ground as well. Very accommodating of him to be sure.

The WC did not claim that Oswald's wallet was found at the site of Tippet's murder. The police were filmed examining a wallet, which was believed to be JD Tippit's.

He then allegedly took himself off to the Texas Theatre where he was arrested, after all the audience had been removed from the theatre, and allegedly drew a fully loaded revolver.

No one was removed from the Texas Theater before Oswald's arrest.

Also found upon him was was a another wallet containing credit cards and a driver's licence in Oswald's name, and an ID for A Hidell. Doesn't everyone carry two wallets with forged driver's licences and ID for aliases? After all, you never know if you may need to throw down one of them after you have just shot someone.

Oswald's wallet did not contain credit cards or a drivers license.

[Fiver]

I have never placed much trust in the melodramatic arrest account in the cinema as relayed by the DPD.

That account was supported by members of the press and the public who were present at the arrest.

More likely to me is Oswald meeting a contact at a pre-arranged place but fearing he might be double crossed at the meeting.

So you believe Oswald was part of a Conspiracy to kill JFK?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

That's your interpretation of Benavides' testimony, with a five minute gap between the shooting and Benavides trying to use Tippet's police radio. That seems too long to me, but the big problem is humans aren't very good at time estimates. We get even worse at time estimations related to traumatic events, like seeing someone shot. The phenomenon is called Tachypsychia.

This is not just my interpretation nor about Tachypsychia.

I did not estimate a five minute gap between the shooting and Benavides trying to use Tippet's police radio.

I estimated that from the time of the shooting to the time at which it was first reported was so long that that the shooting could not have taken place later than 1:12.

Benavides related how he took cover, waited until the killer - who according to witnesses remained at or near the scene of the shooting for some time - had disappeared from view, then waited a few more minutes before going to take a close look at Tippit, then tried to report the shooting.

It was only after that that someone else arrived on the scene and reported the shooting.

That was at 1:17:41.

It is inconceivable that the shooting could have taken place later than 1.12 (= 1:12:00 - 1:12:59).

The shooting could not have happened when the Warren Commission Report claims it happened.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Earlene Roberts said that:
* Oswald arrived at approximately 1pm.
* Oswald left a few minutes later.
* About a half-hour after that three police officers arrived.

But the police didn't arrive at 1:30, they arrived at around 3pm.

So Mrs Roberts was obviously rather bad at estimating time.

Are you saying that Earlene Roberts' estimate of the time at which she was watching a television report about the shooting of President Kennedy and she noticed Oswald arriving being 1 p.m. could be wrong?

Are you saying that by the time that Oswald had gone to his room, put on a jacket, left the room, left the house, gone to the bus stop, and Mrs Roberts seen him through the window, it could have been much short of 1.05 p.m.?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

So you believe Oswald was part of a Conspiracy to kill JFK?

Since we do not know what Oswald was told his role was to be on 22 November 1963, we cannot rule out the possibility that he thought he was part of a conspiracy.

The question is: why do you?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

It makes more sense than Butch Burroughs claiming Oswald entered the Texas Theater before he left Roberts' rooming house. Perhaps Oswald hitched a ride on a passing blue police box?

As to what Oswald was doing, we can never know. The bus transfer he had in his pocket was good to 1:15. If he could make it to the right transfer point, Oswald could have taken a Greyhound bus to Waco, Austin, or San Antonio.

I don't know what you mean by hitching a ride in a police box.

You appear to be unable to explain how Oswald could have arrived at the scene of Tippit's shooting in time to shoot him.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

He went on to his room and stayed about 3 or 4 minutes.

(Warren Commission, Earlene Roberts' testimony, Volume VI, page 438)


Now, it must have been around 1 o’clock, or maybe a little after

(Warren Commission, Earlene Roberts' testimony, Volume VI, page 440)


Her testimony is consistent with Oswald's being at the bus stop at about 1.05 p.m.

[Fiver]

If Tippit and his killer had arranged to meet....

The idea of Tippit and his killer arranging to meet makes no sense.

Central Oak Park was miles away from Tippit's normal patrol area. He wasn't redirected to central Oak Park until 12:45pm. And there were no cell phones.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

The idea of Tippit and his killer arranging to meet makes no sense.

Central Oak Park was miles away from Tippit's normal patrol area. He wasn't redirected to central Oak Park until 12:45pm. And there were no cell phones.

According to the Warren Commission Report, there were no indications that Tippit and his murderer knew each other.

That is not true.

According to the Warren Commission's star witness, Helen Markham, the man leaned on the open near window of Tippit's car and he and Tippit seemed to have a friendly conversation.

She said Tippit did not seem angry but seemed calm.

Does that seem like the behaviour of two people who did not know each other?

Would Tippit have looked calm if he thought that the assassin of President Kennedy had just rested his arms on the open window of his police car?

Would the assassin of President Kennedy have deliberately got that close to a policeman if he sensed that he suspected him of having committed the assassination?

And by the way, immediately after giving that evidence, Markham stated that Oswald did not resemble Tippit's killer, and that she had never seen him before he appeared in the line-up.

[GBinOz]

The WC did not claim that Oswald's wallet was found at the site of Tippet's murder. The police were filmed examining a wallet, which was believed to be JD Tippit's.

You're correct, the WC made no mention of the wallet, and later the DPD denied its existence. However, Capt Westbrook of the DPD examined the contents of the wallet, and found two IDs, and asked FBI Special Agent Bob Barrett if he had heard of Lee Harvey Oswald or Alex Hidell. Barrett replied no. If the wallet was found on Tippit, as you claim, this makes it even more interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITTPHcsG-N8&ab_channel=Curiousitive%21

[cobalt]

I think we have to assess the likelihood of the wallet captured on TV actually belonging to Officer Tippit.

I would place the likelihood of that as extremely low indeed. Since the patrol car's number and an ID badge identified Tippit as the driver, the wallet was of limited evidential value.

Therefore the wallet, which was clearly of interest to the first officers on the scene, belonged to someone else.