JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Doctored Whatsit]

I'll tell you the point herlock , because the FBI own report confirms they could not identify Oswald prints on the rifle the day after the assassination. Period. Everything evidence wise regarding fingerprints and LHO after this should be treated as suspicious. . This was shown on this thread already..

Let's put this away once and for all (hopefully). The Dallas Police Dept preserved the print by removing it from the rifle using adhesive tape, and the FBI did not initially realise that this had happened. This was subsequently accepted by the FBI.

Ooops, I'm repeating .....

[Herlock Sholmes]

Let's put this away once and for all (hopefully). The Dallas Police Dept preserved the print by removing it from the rifle using adhesive tape, and the FBI did not initially realise that this had happened. This was subsequently accepted by the FBI.

Ooops, I'm repeating .....

Im just glad that someone else can read, understand and assess evidence instead of relying on Oliver Stone (and his movie that Bugliosi accurately described as ‘a 3 hour lie.’)

[Fiver]

Im just glad that someone else can read, understand and assess evidence instead of relying on Oliver Stone (and his movie that Bugliosi accurately described as ‘a 3 hour lie.’)

Oliver Stone's JFK makes Zach Snyder's 300 look like a documentary.

[Fiver]

Just as there is no conclusive evidence (not the fabricated made up kind we've seen produced of late) Oswald did shoot Kennedy ,this has also been shown on this thread over many weeks.

There is plenty of non-fabricated evidence that shows Oswald killed Kennedy.

* The Carcano rifle was his weapon. We have the mail order in his handwriting. We have the photographs that Marina Oswald took of him with the rifle, along with his handwriting on the back of one of the photos.
* All bullets and bullet fragments came from Oswald's rifle.
* The shell casings came from Oswald's rifle.
* Oswald's prints were found on the rifle, the paper bag, and the sniper's nest boxes.
* Fibers found on the rifle matched the fibers of Oswald's shirt.
* Frank Brennan saw the shooter and gave his description to the police - the description matched Oswald.
* Oswald had no alibi for the time of the shooting.
* Oswald is the only Book Depository employee to leave the scene,
* Oswald lied about ownership of the rifle, among other things.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Please see my replies below.

There is plenty of non-fabricated evidence that shows Oswald killed Kennedy.

* The Carcano rifle was his weapon.


The weapon found on the sixth floor was a Mauser, not a Carcano.


* The shell casings came from Oswald's rifle.


Two of the three produced in evidence have no proven connection to the ones found.


* Oswald's prints were found on the rifle


They could have been planted.


* Frank Brennan saw the shooter and gave his description to the police - the description matched Oswald.


According to Howard Brennan's affidavit, the alleged shooter was about eight years older than Oswald and wore different coloured clothing.


* Oswald is the only Book Depository employee to leave the scene,


That's not true

[Fiver]

Whether it the magic bullet theory , autopsy pics , ZP still pics
there is a mountain of testimony that contradicts the official version by people who were there at the time .

The autopsy pics support a single shooter, firing from behind. The Zapruder film supports a single shooter, firing from behind.

The Conspiracy theorists need multiple magic bullets.

A bullet that hits JFK in the back and then disappears without hitting Connally, or anyone or anything else in the limo.

A bullet that curves in midair to miss JFK and then curves in midair again to hot Connally in the back.

A bullet that strikes JFK in the right front of the head, takes a sharp left, and disappears completely.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

The autopsy pics support a single shooter, firing from behind. The Zapruder film supports a single shooter, firing from behind.

The Conspiracy theorists need multiple magic bullets.

A bullet that hits JFK in the back and then disappears without hitting Connally, or anyone or anything else in the limo.

A bullet that curves in midair to miss JFK and then curves in midair again to hot Connally in the back.

A bullet that strikes JFK in the right front of the head, takes a sharp left, and disappears completely.

I honestly think you have turned the evidence on its head.

The Single Bullet Theory is so obviously farfetched that members of the Warren Commission actually said so, using the exact same word as I have.

Governor Connally and his wife were there in the Presidential limousine and both said that Connally could not have been hit by the same bullet as one that had hit Kennedy.

Roy Kellerman was in the Presidential limousine and testified that there was a flurry of bullets and that there had to be more bullets fired than conceded by the Warren Commission lawyers.

The eyewitness, forensic, autopsy, and FBI evidence all prove that Kennedy was hit by a bullet about six inches below the neckline, as confirmed by his own personal physician.

It was impossible for such a bullet, entering at a downwards angle, to hit Connally in the back.

The doctors at Parkland - I think about ten of them - were unanimous in their view that Kennedy was hit in the head by a bullet entering from his front, a view shared
by Kennedy's personal physician.

They did not say that such a bullet needed to be a magic bullet.

You are characterising such views as ridiculous, but the ridiculous views are yours because they conflict so completely with the best evidence.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Oliver Stone's JFK makes Zach Snyder's 300 look like a documentary.

[Fiver]

The weapon found on the sixth floor was a Mauser, not a Carcano.

Discovery of the rifle was shown on film by a local news cameraman. It was a Caracano.

Two of the three produced in evidence have no proven connection to the ones found.

We have a complete chain of custody on all three shell casings. Four different ballistics experts concluded that the shell casings came from Oswald's rifle.

They could have been planted.

Feel free to explain how Oswald's prints could have been planted on the rifle, boxes, and paper bag.

According to Howard Brennan's affidavit, the alleged shooter was about eight years older than Oswald and wore different coloured clothing.

That's not what Brennan said.

"He was a white man in his early 30’s, slender, nice looking, slender and would weight about 165 to 175 pounds. He had on light colored clothing but definitely not a suit." - Howard Brennan

The police report given based in Brennan's description was "White male, approximately thirty, slender build, height five feet ten inches, 165 pounds."

Oswald was 5'9, slender build, 26 years old.

That's not true

Oswald was the only Book Depository employee to leave the scene.

Who are you claiming also left?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Please see my replies below.

Firstly PI I really would offer you a bit of well meaning advice. When looking into this case don’t get all of your ‘evidence’ from books written by conspiracy theorist books. They make stuff up. Ok.


Originally posted by Fiver View Post

There is plenty of non-fabricated evidence that shows Oswald killed Kennedy.

* The Carcano rifle was his weapon.

The weapon found on the sixth floor was a Mauser, not a Carcano.

It certainly wasn’t a Mauser. This error comes from 3 people. Roger Craig, Eugene Boone and Seymour Weitzman.

Roger Craig, let’s remember, is the man who ‘saw’ Oswald get into a Rambler on Elm Street 5 minutes after the assassination.

The man who ‘saw’ the shell casings an inch apart on the 6th floor.

The only person who ‘saw’ and heard Oswald yelling “everyone will know who I am now,” in Will Fritz’s office.

The man who also claimed that a Mauser was found on the roof of the TSBD.

The man about whom conspiracy theory legend Mary Ferrell said:

“I knew Roger Craig for several years before his death. It is my belief that Roger was a very sick young man. He had made a name for himself as a very promising young law enforcement officer. When he came forward with some of the "stories" he told following the events of that November weekend, he believed that he would be offered a great deal of money and, possibly, speaking engagements. I am very sorry to say that I am one of the few conspiracy nuts who never believed Roger Craig. When Roger made a number of speeches about the fact that "they" prevented him from getting a job, I talked my husband into giving him a job. Roger did not want to work. He wanted people to give him money because he had "seen something or other. I have made enemies because I have continued to say that I have never really believed him.”

The man about whom conspiracy theory legend Harold Weisberg said:

[I]“Roger Craig may be a brave guy and all of that, but he is also full of what is generally reserved for toilets. I have gone over his annotation of his testimony, as printed, and his account of the changes is utterly impossible. I spent too many years working with court reporters, particularly, the firm the Commission used, to find it possible to credit this in any way. More, have traced that testimony all the way from Dallas to the Government Printing Office, and it is printed as it was taken down, I have copies of the typescript sent to the GPO, and I have the letter of transmittal to DC the bills for taking it, the whole story. Roger is, despite Penn's [Penn Jones] great love for him, at best simply wrong, in the newer areas, what he embellished his original testimony with. Now I have met Roger, and he is a fine looking, clean-cut kind of guy who appears to be truthful, serious and all that-just like dozens of guys I once guarded in an Army locked ward in a large mental institution. He does not impress me as the kind of guy who is out to make trouble. But he is.”

Good quality witness. Another one whose story changed over time. He was simply mistaken and then elaborated because he became a CT.

In a filmed interview in 1963 he was asked and gave an answer:

QUESTION: "Did you handle that rifle [that was pulled from the boxes on the sixth floor of the TSBD]?"

ROGER CRAIG: "Yes, I did. I couldn't give its name because I don't know foreign rifles."

It is also noticeable that he never mentioned seeing a Mauser stamp on the rifle during his WC testimony and no other officer saw this stamp.

But of course 2 other officer’s said that they saw a Mauser and both admitted their error more than once. Just one instance each.

Eugene Boone: "I could not identify it positively because I did not have an identifying mark on the weapon."

Seymour Weitzman: “To my sorrow, I looked at it and it looked like a Mauser, which I said it was. But I said the wrong one; because just at a glance, I saw the Mauser action....and, I don't know, it just came out as words it was a German Mauser. Which it wasn't. It's an Italian type gun. But from a glance, it's hard to describe; and that's all I saw, was at a glance. I was mistaken. And it was proven that my statement was a mistake; but it was an honest mistake."

We really shouldn’t need to discuss this nonsense but it keeps getting regurgitated. It’s another example though of our brilliant/stupid plotters. Brilliant enough to fake and forge and set up corrupt autopsy’s and investigation but so mind-bogglingly dumb that they displayed the wrong rifle to the world.

Its time that this nonsense was consigned to the bin. It was a Mannlicher Carcano. The Tom Alyea film also confirms this obvious fact.


* The shell casings came from Oswald's rifle.


Two of the three produced in evidence have no proven connection to the ones found.

I can’t even begin to think where you get this stuff from. I’m guessing it was from a conspiracy theorist? It’s nonsense and I’m not wasting any time on it. The shells were from Oswald’s gun.


* Oswald's prints were found on the rifle

They could have been planted.

And Lee Harvey Oswald could have escaped by disguising himself as porcupine but he didn’t. Unless you can provide evidence that they were planted, and you can’t, it’s a pointless and desperate statement.


* Frank Brennan saw the shooter and gave his description to the police - the description matched Oswald.

According to Howard Brennan's affidavit, the alleged shooter was about eight years older than Oswald and wore different coloured clothing.

At that distance you nitpick. You always do this. What police officer in the world would quibble about an 8 year distance. Can you stand directly in front of someone and say whether they are 28 or 36? Or 35 or 43? Or 68 or 76? Please be sensible PI. He saw someone in that very window, with a rifle who looked like Oswald. That’s evidence that any police force would take seriously unless the station was set up in Mark Lane’s backyard of course.


* Oswald is the only Book Depository employee to leave the scene,


That's not true

Yes it is.

You really should try reading first the actual evidence, then the viewpoints from both sides. Your default position is to go straight to conspiracist authors. Free your mind by opening yourself up to the viewpoints of those without an agenda or a pet theory to promote.

[Herlock Sholmes]

[/B]

Oswald was the only Book Depository employee to leave the scene.

Who are you claiming also left?

I think that one other person drifted away but returned and was counted. If memory serves Fiver (and it might not) I think it could have been Giverns. Oswald was the only one that disappeared permanently.

[Pcdunn]

I find it totally ironic that this thread has now proceeded to evolve into a carbon copy of the "John Richardson " thread.

Where as 1000s of post back and forth over several months have led back to the start where posters are continually asking for what has already been discussed at length on multiple accassions.

I for one don't wish to be dragged down that rabbit hole again , suffice to say my stance on this topic which is clear to everyone is that the WC report is clearly at odds with actual eyewitness testimony from people who where there on that day, whos evidence directly contradicts the WC findings.

People who evidence was never admitted or called upon to give testimony to the WC.

Proven evidence i might add on this thread already submitted that confirms the WC was wrong in its lone gunman theory .

I'll simply repeat my reasoning for this

For the WC to be 100 per cent correct and Oswald according to many was the man who shot and killed both Kennedy and officer Tippit, required ever person who ever gave evidence direct to the contrary of this was of the opinion of the WC apologist

1 , A Liar
2 Was mistaken
3 DIdnt exist
4 Was an idiot and a moron.

What are the odds of that happening?

A list of these name has already been given,and its a biggggg list .

I will continue to submitted any new material that supports LHO innocence as I see fit ,what I won't do is entertain futile discussion from any poster who simply want to engage in a merry-go-round dialog for their own satisfaction just for the sake of argument.
.

Some of the "witnesses" who were not called by the WC or the HSCA had been looked at, and were determined to have no valid evidence-- that's why they were left off the roster of verified witnesses. And, yes, it's a long list.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

In answer to Fiver, # 2199:



Discovery of the rifle was shown on film by a local news cameraman. It was a Caracano.


According to sworn affifavits, and radio and television reports, it was a Mauser.



We have a complete chain of custody on all three shell casings.


The evidence that two of the three produced in evidence have no proven connection to the ones found has been presented on this thread.



Feel free to explain how Oswald's prints could have been planted on the rifle, boxes, and paper bag.


I already have - on this thread.
There is no proof that the print was genuinely lifted from the rifle.



According to Howard Brennan's affidavit, the alleged shooter was about eight years older than Oswald and wore different coloured clothing.


That's not what Brennan said.


That is what he said and everything you have quoted confirms that what I wrote is correct.



Oswald was the only Book Depository employee to leave the scene.

Who are you claiming also left?


Five people did not even turn up that day and many who were outside were not allowed back inside the building following the assassination.

[Herlock Sholmes]

There’s another point against Oswald that’s rarely mentioned. After the assassination she was living with a man called James Martin and his wife. Martin had a brief affair with Marina until she ended it. She then told Martin’s wife about it so this is all on record. Martin, until the end of the affair, had become Marina’s manager getting 10% of the money she received for telling her story.

On January 12th Robert Oswald was going with Marina to visit Lee’s grave so he went to pick her up at the Martin’s. Martin pulled Robert aside and told him that Marina had told him that in 1963 had plotted to kill Vice President Richard Nixon when he visited Texas. Marine said that she’d resorted to locking him in the bathroom until he promised her that he wouldn’t do it. Richard showed the Commission layers his own diary entry about this incident.

And Oswald was an innocent man….Walker, Nixon then Kennedy and Tippit. Guilty as charged I’m afraid. The evidence against Oswald is overwhelming. People have been convicted on a tenth of that available on Oswald.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Some of the "witnesses" who were not called by the WC or the HSCA had been looked at, and were determined to have no valid evidence-- that's why they were left off the roster of verified witnesses. And, yes, it's a long list.

Perfectly true Pat. If they had questioned every single witness they would still be sitting there now with Warren’s grandson in charge.