JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[GBinOz]

And that’s what a conspiracy theorist considers conclusive disproof is it George.

Had Brennan ever been inside the TSBD? How could he have known how high the window was from the floor? He couldn’t. It’s yet another non-issue from the increasingly desperate conspiracy crowd.

You have just reached a level of stupid never before achieved. You are saying that Brennan only described a standing shooter, for whom it was only physically possible to fire through the glass in the window, only because he hadn't been to the TSBD to check the height of the window opening in order to get his story straight.

[GBinOz]

Can anyone refresh my memory on the significance of the Pullman car?

Briefly, Herlock moved the location of the car from the railway yard to the carpark behind the picket fence so that Desroe, who was standing on the back of the Pullman car, would be in a position to deny the presence of a gunman behind the picket fence.

[Aethelwulf]

You have just reached a level of stupid never before achieved.

Nice to see St Two Face out and about again.

Level of stupid never before achieved:

Fake AZ film
Medical evidence faked
Everything that doesn't line up with CT BS = fake
The 'dodgy' serial number
Whatever the hell that BS idea was you had about 45-60 degrees you were trying to explain to Frank

[GBinOz]

Nice to see St Two Face out and about again.

Level of stupid never before achieved:

Fake AZ film
Medical evidence faked - Your faked autopsy photo?
Everything that doesn't line up with CT BS = fake - No, just you.
The 'dodgy' serial number
Whatever the hell that BS idea was you had about 45-60 degrees you were trying to explain to Frank

Had you graduated kindergarten you might have understood.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Can anyone refresh my memory on the significance of the Pullman car?

And now a proper response.

It began with this Joshua…

Jim Towner, a former military man immediately recognized what his wife described as ‘firecrackers’ as gunshots. He heard three shots which he thought came from the Book Depository. He followed a crowd of spectators to the picket fence and spoke to a black man wearing a white uniform standing on the back of a Pullman dining car. It was Carl Desroe. Desroe responded to questions from the crowd asking if he had observed anyone in the vicinity. “No sir” Desroe said, “I haven’t seen anybody back here and I’ve been back here watching the whole thing.”

Desroe was a Pullman guard to the chairman of the line if I recall correctly.

Desroe himself mentioned this to his pastor some years later. His pastor said the Desroe and his wife were sensible people. His wife claimed that she saw something behind the fence that made her scared to come forward but she didn’t say what it was. I speculated (and was open that it was just speculation of course) that after the assassination there was increasing talk of conspiracy with the authorities being involved so ‘perhaps’ because just after the event she saw policemen behind the fence she might have felt to intimidated to come forward. Perhaps less surprising coming from someone of colour in 1960’s America?

Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone also appears to have seen the same man.

George then asked how a Pullman car could have been in a car park.

I suggested that perhaps Towner had walked over to the track to the left of the car park or that Desroe had climbed down from the carriage and walked over to the fence or that perhaps Towner had called over. These were simply suggestions but George appears to think that I’m weaving some kind of theory.

Then I found a 1967 photograph which showed a rail track close to the yard.

Then I found the 2 photographs of the Grassy Knoll taken just after the assassination and just after each other. One shows something behind the white structure which at least looks like a carriage but in the next photograph it’s gone. Conspiracy theorists have suspected some kind of airbrushing.

The above is just what I presented Joshua and with no ‘theory.’

If true, and perhaps there is evidence against it, it gives us a witness behind the fence looking toward the assassination who saw nothing going on.

[Aethelwulf]

Had you graduated kindergarten you might have understood.

Only thing that needs to be understood is you trying to come up with yet another ridiculous theory to support your moronic CT position. Correction, not yours, because you all you are capable of is giving 'copy' and 'paste' a good workout every day.

[Herlock Sholmes]

You have just reached a level of stupid never before achieved. You are saying that Brennan only described a standing shooter, for whom it was only physically possible to fire through the glass in the window, only because he hadn't been to the TSBD to check the height of the window opening in order to get his story straight.

And here’s me thinking that you were above such personal insults George? Your self-created image is rapidly crumbling.

If someone sees someone else at a distant window how can he know if he was standing or sitting or crouching? If he hadn’t been inside the building how could he have known how high the window from the floor? Are all windows in all buildings the same distance from the floor?

You’re applying the same biased tactics that you applied to Frazier. You tried to distract from the proven lie about the curtain rods and the fact that the parcel was clearly much larger that a lunch packet by quibbling over the exact length…in the process complete disregarding the fact that in her very first interview she estimate 3 feet in length.

I honestly used to think that, whether I agreed with you on an issue or not, you at least gave your honest opinion. I know see that this isn’t the case. You have an agenda and use tactics to pursue it. You try and detract from the main issue by focusing on unimportant trifles and you wilfully attempt to manipulate evidence. This has been an eye-opening thread. Sadly.

[GBinOz]

Only thing that needs to be understood is you trying to come up with yet another ridiculous theory to support your moronic CT position. Correction, not yours, because you all you are capable of is giving 'copy' and 'paste' a good workout every day.

Ahh, not like your eyewitness observations?

[cobalt]

‘The conspiracy to assassinate Kennedy did not depend on getting Oswald placed at the TSBD and the motorcade route passing it, except on 22 November.
If those two conditions had not been met, the conspirators would have tried to commit the assassination in another place.’

The security services’ testimony indicates that they considered the main dangers as being at Love Field and the Trade Mart. That made Dealey Plaza a better choice for assassins since it came at the end of the motorcade where the crowds were thinner and the security personnel might have relaxed somewhat before the short drive to the Trade Mart where around 200 police were stationed.

Oswald’s employment at the TSBD was only the latest in a string of menial jobs so he could easily be moved around without attracting any attention. Oswald seen handing out pro-Castro leaflets at the Trade Mart in Dallas would have knitted in with his handing out pro-Castro leaflets in New Orleans….at the Trade Mart.
A CIA manual from the 1950s stated that: "Public figures or guarded officials may be killed with great reliability and some safety if a firing point can be established prior to an official occasion. The propaganda value of this system may be high. That advice was not intended for domestic use obviously.

[Pcdunn]

I noticed that too.
I think it just goes to show that witness perception and description are very variable, especially something as naturally variable as hair colour.
As I mentioned to Dave, one witness described Oswald's hair in that photo as "bushy". I guess they had different standards in 1963.

Length of men's hair in the Sixties was very short; this was the era of the crew cut, after all. I remember my mother saying the Beatles seemed so alien, with their "long" hair-- yet by the Seventies, their original haircuts seemed so nice and neat, compared to the hippie boys!
If Oswald's hair was long enough to seem "windblown" or "need cutting" as witnesses said, then "bushy" could apply too, perhaps.

[Joshua Rogan]

Leaving aside the personal spat, there are several photos from 1963 which show two dark train carriages coupled together and parked in the rail yard / parking lot area. Couldn't one of these be the Pullman car where Desroe and his wife were said to have been?
It would certainly provide a view of the rear of the picket fence.

[GBinOz]

And here’s me thinking that you were above such personal insults George? Your self-created image is rapidly crumbling.
There is a limit to everyone's patience. I haven't created any image, I was taught manners as a child.
If someone sees someone else at a distant window how can he know if he was standing or sitting or crouching? If he hadn’t been inside the building how could he have known how high the window from the floor? Are all windows in all buildings the same distance from the floor?
Well, if you can see them from head to knee they are standing, from head to armpit, likely sitting or crouching. Why would he have specified standing if he couldn't tell?
You’re applying the same biased tactics that you applied to Frazier. You tried to distract from the proven lie about the curtain rods and the fact that the parcel was clearly much larger that a lunch packet by quibbling over the exact length…in the process complete disregarding the fact that in her very first interview she estimate 3 feet in length.
Not the dreaded curtain rods again. No quibbling involved - Was the parcel long enough to contain a rifle - NO.
I honestly used to think that, whether I agreed with you on an issue or not, you at least gave your honest opinion. I know see that this isn’t the case. You have an agenda and use tactics to pursue it.
You try and detract from the main issue by focusing on unimportant trifles and you wilfully attempt to manipulate evidence.
Your resurrection of the curtain rods shows this is your trait rather than mine.
This has been an eye-opening thread. Sadly.

"I honestly used to think that, whether I agreed with you on an issue or not, you at least gave your honest opinion."

You're absolutely right. This has gotten way out of hand. I reviewed this thread from the start, and back then your posts were well mannered and polite. Over time, your posts have become highly intolerant and filled with invectives and hyperbole towards those that don't agree with your opinions. I'm fine with witty sarcasm but not with name calling and personal attacks. I started with the former but have lately, to my regret, allowed myself to indulge in the latter. It has not escaped my attention that in this post you have restrained yourself, and I am almost tempted to propose a truce, but I have grown weary of the conflict and have determined that my time could be better spent elsewhere (hold the applause). Farewell.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Is that the same Howard Brennan that said he saw someone shooting from a standing position through a window that could only be opened up to waist level, and that said he saw the fatal head shot fired, and then turned to see the bullet strike Kennedy's head? Sir HS comes up with some fantasist witnesses.

Yes, indeed, GB.

And it's the same Howard Brennan who could not pick Oswald out of a line-up and who later explained that he could have picked him out if he hadn't been afraid of the communists.

And it's the same Howard Brennan whom HS considers to be a credible witness while complaining that I am not capable of posting what he calls sensible comments.

[Joshua Rogan]

Length of men's hair in the Sixties was very short; this was the era of the crew cut, after all. I remember my mother saying the Beatles seemed so alien, with their "long" hair-- yet by the Seventies, their original haircuts seemed so nice and neat, compared to the hippie boys!
If Oswald's hair was long enough to seem "windblown" or "need cutting" as witnesses said, then "bushy" could apply too, perhaps.

Exactly, Pat. And Frazier also said that, if Oswald's hair got messed up, he wasn't the sort to neaten it again but just left it ruffled.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

I know see that this isn’t the case. You have an agenda and use tactics to pursue it. You try and detract from the main issue by focusing on unimportant trifles and you wilfully attempt to manipulate evidence.

Is anyone else here familiar with the phenomenon of déjà vu?

Reading the above condemnation of GB by HS is almost exactly the same as reading HS's condemnations of me!

Especially the nice touch about manipulating evidence.

This is from someone who claims that all three witnesses in Mexico City who said that 'Oswald' was blond were wrong!

This is from the poster who says that when Oswald's landlady said that she saw him leaving his lodgings wearing a dark jacket, she was wrong!

This is from the poster who, when I pointed out the many cases of Oswald's being impersonated, wrote this:

Normal people don’t assume impersonation when they hear of someone being mis-identified.

A man who drove a showroom car at 70 mph on a test drive, said he would have enough money to buy the car come 23 November 1963, and gave his name as Lee Oswald, was mis-identified,according to HS.

No impersonation occurred, according to HS.

But according to the same HS, the three witnesses in Mexico City correctly identified a man who was about ten years older than Oswald, several inches shorter than Oswald, and had blond hair, as Oswald!

So much for manipulation of evidence!