The Black Dahlia: Is This the Solution?

[barnflatwyngarde]

Folks,
A new book has just been published on the infamous Black Dahlia murder. (link below)

Unlike many of of the previous books on the case, this one is not one of the "My Daddy Did It" type.

The book runs to 368 pages, and has been getting good reviews.

Should be interesting!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Dahlia-Red-Rose-Real-life/dp/1473666325/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1506963355&sr=1-1&keywords=black+dahlia+red+rose

[Abby Normal]

Folks,
A new book has just been published on the infamous Black Dahlia murder. (link below)

Unlike many of of the previous books on the case, this one is not one of the "My Daddy Did It" type.

The book runs to 368 pages, and has been getting good reviews.

Should be interesting!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Dahli...ahlia+red+rose

thanks for posting. I wonder who the author posits as her killer.

[barnflatwyngarde]

Abby, my recollection is that it was a suspect questioned by the police but then cleared.

By all accounts the author has come up with some new apparently "compelling" evidence, but I suppose we'll have to suspend judgement until we've read it.

My copy should arrive soon, I'll post when I've read it.

[Pcdunn]

Thanks for the info, Barn.

American Amazon shows the hardcover book only available from "third-party sellers", and the paperback is almost out of stock, but the audio-book is listed as being available (it has a slightly different title.)

Looks as if the mention of "a police cover-up" is along the lines of the novelist who thought his stepfather was the killer.

Let us know what you think when you read it.

[barnflatwyngarde]

Thanks for the info, Barn.

American Amazon shows the hardcover book only available from "third-party sellers", and the paperback is almost out of stock, but the audio-book is listed as being available (it has a slightly different title.)

Looks as if the mention of "a police cover-up" is along the lines of the novelist who thought his stepfather was the killer.

Let us know what you think when you read it.

Will do Pc.
I'm looking forward to it.

I suspect that this will be one of those books I'll batter through in 48 hours.

[RockySullivan]

I am quite rusty on my Mad Butcher but I came across this: "CLEVELAND
1. Man fingered as the killer of Cleveland Torso Victim, Flo Polillo by a lady in the Cleveland Workhouse (Flo Polillo and other Torso Victims are dismembered). The man fingered was: Jack Wilson" here

Is this true? Can anyone tell me more about this?

[Pcdunn]

A few links about Jack Anderson Wilson

I am quite rusty on my Mad Butcher but I came across this: "CLEVELAND
1. Man fingered as the killer of Cleveland Torso Victim, Flo Polillo by a lady in the Cleveland Workhouse (Flo Polillo and other Torso Victims are dismembered). The man fingered was: Jack Wilson" here

Is this true? Can anyone tell me more about this?

Hello, Rocky,

That site is a little sketchy-looking, but I got his full name from one of the blog responses, and searched it. Jack Anderson Wilson turns up at these sites:

blackdahlia.web.unc.edu/jack-anderson-wilson/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Dahlia_suspects

https://www.gasdetection.com/MDS/m102599.html

https://www.blumhouse.com/.../is-the...er-and-clevela...

Seems a book a few years ago did finger Wilson as the alleged Mad Butcher and Elizabeth Short's killer.

[RockySullivan]

Thanks Pcdunn, yea I've heard of him before but the claim that he was a suspect in the Cleveland torso murders before the black dahlia was what I'm skeptical of. It's on the unc.edu link you posted. " He was originally a suspect in the Cleveland Torso Murders case" Which doesn't mean it isn't bullshit either but also makes me wonder

[Harry D]

I've only ever had a passing interest in this case but I wonder if Elizabeth Short was the victim of the mob? If Short was the "pet" of a particular mobster, a rival gang might have killed her and splayed her out in the open as some kind of declaration. Think the Godfather and the horse's head. She had been slashed from ear to ear, in what's commonly known as a "Glasgow Smile". This is a torture method used by gangsters that originated, of course, in Scotland.

[barnflatwyngarde]

I've only ever had a passing interest in this case but I wonder if Elizabeth Short was the victim of the mob? If Short was the "pet" of a particular mobster, a rival gang might have killed her and splayed her out in the open as some kind of declaration. Think the Godfather and the horse's head. She had been slashed from ear to ear, in what's commonly known as a "Glasgow Smile". This is a torture method used by gangsters that originated, of course, in Scotland.

Harry,
I doubt very much if Elizabeth Short was ever a "pet" or in any kind of relationship with a mobster.

Her dental hygiene was so bad that she had taken to filling her many dental cavities with candle wax.

I think a well connected mobster could have done better.

With regard to the phrase "Glasgow Smile", I have lived in Glasgow all my life and I have never heard the phrase "Glasgow Smile" associated with a particular method of slashing a person.

I looked up the phrase on the Web and the comments you made are indeed widely supported by numerous references.

I wonder if this is a type of urban myth which has over time gained acceptance.

[Abby Normal]

Re the Black dahlia and torso case. Not related.

IMHO the probable Cleveland butcher was Dr. Sweeney.

Wilson is a nebulous suspect at best-a modern suspect as a result of a Black dahlia suspect book, in which many basic facts are wrong. typical BS.

[Pcdunn]

Fake Research?

Thanks Pcdunn, yea I've heard of him before but the claim that he was a suspect in the Cleveland torso murders before the black dahlia was what I'm skeptical of. It's on the unc.edu link you posted. " He was originally a suspect in the Cleveland Torso Murders case" Which doesn't mean it isn't bullshit either but also makes me wonder

Hi, Rocky,

The Wiki article said he was never suspected in the Cleveland Torso Murders case, until a book was written claiming this, which is what Abby also says.

Usually I'd tell our patrons to rely more on websites with ".edu" domains as more likely to have better information-- but as your example shows, perhaps not so much.

[barnflatwyngarde]

A while ago I said that I would post a quick review of “Black Dahlia, Red Rose” by Piu Eatwell when I had finished it.

Well, I’ve now finished it, so, here we go.

I will resist the temptation to try and do a full review, but rather to give a thumbnail sketch of the book. I am sure that Paul Begg will probably review the book in a forthcoming “Ripperologist”, and I for one will be keen to hear what he make of Ms Eatwell’s book.

It becomes very clear early on in the book, that Eatwell has started from the premise that the murderer is Leslie Dillon, and works backwards from there.
Never a good move in a true crime book.

One of the major problem in the Dahlia case is the fact that the official autopsy report has never been officially released.
There are various documents on the web which claim to be official report, but they vary widely in their style and content, so we are whistling in the dark with regard to what injuries were inflicted on Elizabeth Short.

Some reports claim that the body was covered in cigarette burns, some make no mention of this. Some reports say that Elizabeth was forced to eat excrement, likewise this is debated on other sites and in other books.
The author refers to the murderer having shaved the victims pubic hair, and later in the book she makes the claim that the murderer had torn out the victims pubic hair.
The problem with this claim is that according to photographs of the body, it appears that Elizabeth Short's pubic hair was untouched.

There is a ludicrous scene where Dillon was asked by police and police psychologist Dr Paul de River to drop his trousers and pants in order that they could examine his genitals.

The police and Dr de River then comment on his “juvenile penis” and speculate that this made him a “sadist type” of murderer.
This ridiculous comment is never followed up, it just sits there like a bad smell.

With regard to the location of the murder, the author tells us that shortly after the murder, the owner of a local motel discovered one of their rooms was covered in blood and excrement.

With the Dahlia murder dominating all the press media at the time, the logical thing to do would be to contact the police and alert them to the situation.

The owner and his wife however, decided to clean up the mess and carry on regardless!

The author does provide some support for this claim by other people who claim to have seen the bloody room, but surely this just makes the premise more unlikely.

Rather than having two people who may just have stumbled on the location of the murder, we have four or five people who all say absolutely nothing, while the whole city is in a state of panic at the thought of having a sadistic murderer in their midst.

The author briefly mentions a few of the other Dahlia suspects but because of her absolute certainty of Dillon’s guilt, they are quickly dismissed.

It’s all a bit of a shame, because there is still a need for a well balanced and nuanced book about the Black Dahlia murder, and indeed the Zodiac case.
Unfortunately this book isn’t it.

I would welcome views from other posters who have read the book, but personally I found it a wasted opportunity.

[jmenges]

I am sure that Paul Begg will probably review the book in a forthcoming “Ripperologist”, and I for one will be keen to hear what he make of Ms Eatwell’s book.

I'll be the one reviewing both this and ' The Man from the Train' in the next issue of the Rip. Similar books that deal with innocent people talking themselves into the center of murder investigations.

JM

[barnflatwyngarde]

I'll be the one reviewing both this and ' The Man from the Train' in the next issue of the Rip. Similar books that deal with innocent people talking themselves into the center of murder investigations.

JM

Thanks JM.

I look forward to reading your review.
As I said in my post, I wasn't doing a review, I was just giving a thumbnail sketch.

I will leave reviewing the experts.

Cheers