HELP I need some new books - Recommendations?

[Monty]

Thanks again for your kind help in suggesting other good reads.

I have to say that I already have books on all the high profile British murder cases, past and present. I find it's the the ones that remained unsolved or got swept under the carpet that are of most interest to me.

There have been a couple of possibilities that I will be exploring.

Getting back again to the Dominici Affair - how I wish some of the people on here would read (or maybe re-read) the Jean LaBorde book on the case because I would love to discuss Detective Sebeille's conclusions on here.

The Dominici family could not tell the truth if it hit them in the head, as Sebeille discovered. They've clung on to this 'conspiracy theory' throughout the years - but the reason for this is obvious - none of them wish themselves or their children to be branded as a descendant of a man who clubbed a little girl to death. Well, imo they have to face facts and live with the truth.

Yes, Drummond was a scientist but he had never been to France before and it was a family 'adventure'. He was just a tourist who chose the wrong place to park.

May I be so bold as to introduce you to our latest efforts Louisa, The A-Z of Victorian Crime?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01ICHQNPI/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

We've tried to include the lesser known amongst the better known.

Monty
🙂

[louisa]

Hi Monty

That looks like a good read - thanks for recommending it. I have a similarly titled book but the cases are different so I'll be ordering that one from Amazon.

I have to say, people on this forum have been extremely helpful and I have already ordered books on their recommendations. Thanks to all!



Note to Graham and anyone else interested in the Dominici Affair- you may find this website interesting. It is the findings of the Judge in the final investigation. Juge Carrias was appointed to have the final say on the matter, after the detectives and the Surete had finished their investigations, because he was totally independent and unbiased - even the Dominicis recognized this and respected him.

http://vincent.carrias.pagesperso-orange.fr/The_reasons.htm

[Mayerling]

May I be so bold as to introduce you to our latest efforts Louisa, The A-Z of Victorian Crime?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01ICHQNPI/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

We've tried to include the lesser known amongst the better known.

Monty
🙂

Hi Monty,

I was looking at the cover of the book, "The A-Z of Victorian Crime" and I wonder if that scene is the murder of the employer of Kate Webster. It looks like it is.

Jeff

[Graham]

Hi Louisa,

Note to Graham and anyone else interested in the Dominici Affair- you may find this website interesting. It is the findings of the Judge in the final investigation. Juge Carrias was appointed to have the final say on the matter, after the detectives and the Surete had finished their investigations, because he was totally independent and unbiased - even the Dominicis recognized this and respected him.

On the basis that there are two sides to every coin, and that there is rarely smoke without fire, I've had a fairly good look on the internet and I would still seriously question the assertion that Sir Jack had never visited France prior to that fatal holiday. French investigator M. Raymond Badin seems quite certain that Sir Jack had been in France on previous occasions, regarding what was basically industrial esponage spiced with possible wartime connections to MI6 (or maybe SOE, but on reflection probably not SOE). The other question that M. Badin asks, is what was the possible motive of Gaston Dominici in killing all three members of the Drummond family? M. Badin goes on to mention the apparent presence of unknown men in the area immediately prior to the murders. Not saying I swallow all of this with relish, and I will definitely put the Jean LaBorder book on my (ever lengthening) 'to read' list. I will hopefully also find time to read that article by Vincent Carrias over the weekend.

By the way, it seems Sir Jack's parentage was in question - also, there is no birth-certificate in his name in the Public Records Office. Just the sort of background MI6 likes!

Meanwhile - does anyone have any interest in the Great Train Robbery? Not a murder, but apart from the blokes who were tried at Aylsbury and given long prison sentences, it does have the tasty tang of an unsolved crime.

Graham

[Monty]

Hi Monty,

I was looking at the cover of the book, "The A-Z of Victorian Crime" and I wonder if that scene is the murder of the employer of Kate Webster. It looks like it is.

Jeff

Spot on Jeff.

Monty
😄

[louisa]

Graham -

For argument's sake let's assume that Sir Jack was a spy on a mission - would he honestly use his family as a smokescreen? Would you? He had definitely never been to France before and even had to use a phrase book in order to book the family into a hotel.

And you are asking us to believe that a hired assassin would be wandering about in the French countryside, hoping to murder Jack Drummond, with an old ex-army Rock Ola rifle that had been amateurishly cobbled together with a piece of rusty wire?

The fact that Sir Jack was a scientist and that there may have been an altogether different motive for his killing was vigorously pursued by the detectives, in both investigations, and dismissed as unviable.

Conspiracy theorists pride themselves on 'thinking outside the box', and in doing so tend to overlook the obvious. The reasons for the brutal murder of this innocent family were as basic and old as time itself.

Graham, I'm hoping we can discuss this case again after you have read the book because I suspect you will re-think your opinions.

[Mayerling]

Spot on Jeff.

Monty
😄

I read that they finally found the head of the poor woman only about ten or fifteen years ago.

Jeff

[Mayerling]

Hi Louisa,



On the basis that there are two sides to every coin, and that there is rarely smoke without fire, I've had a fairly good look on the internet and I would still seriously question the assertion that Sir Jack had never visited France prior to that fatal holiday. French investigator M. Raymond Badin seems quite certain that Sir Jack had been in France on previous occasions, regarding what was basically industrial esponage spiced with possible wartime connections to MI6 (or maybe SOE, but on reflection probably not SOE). The other question that M. Badin asks, is what was the possible motive of Gaston Dominici in killing all three members of the Drummond family? M. Badin goes on to mention the apparent presence of unknown men in the area immediately prior to the murders. Not saying I swallow all of this with relish, and I will definitely put the Jean LaBorder book on my (ever lengthening) 'to read' list. I will hopefully also find time to read that article by Vincent Carrias over the weekend.

By the way, it seems Sir Jack's parentage was in question - also, there is no birth-certificate in his name in the Public Records Office. Just the sort of background MI6 likes!

Meanwhile - does anyone have any interest in the Great Train Robbery? Not a murder, but apart from the blokes who were tried at Aylsbury and given long prison sentences, it does have the tasty tang of an unsolved crime.

Graham

Hi Graham,

The thing I always got intrigued about concerning Sir Jack's murder with his family was he was one of the few Englishmen with a title (like the Earl of Erroll in Kenya, though he was Scottish), who was a recent murder victim. [Lord Lucan does not fit, as he is the alleged (and probable) murderer, and Lord Mountbatten was technically the victim (with a grandson) of a political assassination.]

As for the Great Train Robbery, what I always was intrigued about is a story (possibly nothing more than a story) that the plan used was concocted by (of all people) former SS troubleshooter agent Otto Skorzeny, then living comfortably in Spain. I still wonder if that true, but I have a feeling it isn't.

Jeff

[Graham]

Hi Jeff,

As for the Great Train Robbery, what I always was intrigued about is a story (possibly nothing more than a story) that the plan used was concocted by (of all people) former SS troubleshooter agent Otto Skorzeny, then living comfortably in Spain. I still wonder if that true, but I have a feeling it isn't.

This is the theory propounded by the writer Piers Paul Read in his book about the GTR. It's years and years since I read it, and I can't remember how he came up with this idea, but I'm pretty sure that no other writer or commentator on the GTR agreed with him. Nice thought, though - if it was old Otto, then perhaps he should have repeated his Mussolini rescue stunt and landed his Fieseler Storch aircraft alongside the stopped train, then flown off into the night and history two and a half million quid the richer.....

Re: Sir Jack Drummond, not sure what you're getting at with regard to his title.

Graham

[Mayerling]

Hi Jeff,



This is the theory propounded by the writer Piers Paul Read in his book about the GTR. It's years and years since I read it, and I can't remember how he came up with this idea, but I'm pretty sure that no other writer or commentator on the GTR agreed with him. Nice thought, though - if it was old Otto, then perhaps he should have repeated his Mussolini rescue stunt and landed his Fieseler Storch aircraft alongside the stopped train, then flown off into the night and history two and a half million quid the richer.....

Re: Sir Jack Drummond, not sure what you're getting at with regard to his title.

Graham

Hi Graham,

I saw the theory about Skorzeny in the Piers Paul Read book (which I have). It would have been a nice touch had he popped up in that Fieseler Storch, but by 1967 he was a bit bigger in size (and girth) than in 1943/44. The plane might have had problems with payload.

As a simple Yank, my comment about Drummond's title shows my limitations. Sir Jack had a knighthood, not a title with land (like Lucan was an Earl with an estate). I should have said that when I first was acquainted with the Drummond case it was the first time that I came across a 20th Century murder case where the victim (or here one of the victims) had an English knighthood or title at all. Since then, by the way, I have noted some others. In the last year of World War II three American G.I.s were arrested (and two executed) for killing a baronet on his estate (they were drunk on the occasion).

Jeff

[louisa]

A few threads ago somebody mentioned the author Richard Whittington Egan (in relation to the book Jack of Jumps which I have on order from Amazon).

RWE is one of my favourite true crime authors and it's worth mentioning, for anyone who is interested in reading a couple of excellent books, that he wrote these two (which are both favourites of mine).

The Ordeal of Philip Yale Drew
The Riddle of Birdhurst Rise

If you haven't already got these in your collection then you're missing a treat. Both books are about unsolved murders and they are fascinating, giving a real insight into Britain in the thirties.

[Penny_Dredfull]

I love The Riddle of Birdhurst Rise! I used to own a second-hand, well-thumbed paperback copy in the Penguin Crime imprint with the rather lurid red thumbprint cover. lol
My two suggestions are Victorian Murderesses by Mary S. Hartman- which covers 13 British and French female killers such as Constance Kent, Madeline Smith, Florence Maybrick, Adelaide Bartlett, etc. And A Very British Murder by Lucy Worsely which is very entertaining and informative. It explores how real-life crime, science and the emerging art of detection influenced popular conceptions of homicide- basically how strange sods like us became so fascinated by murder! Highly recommended and fun.

[louisa]

I love The Riddle of Birdhurst Rise! I used to own a second-hand, well-thumbed paperback copy in the Penguin Crime imprint with the rather lurid red thumbprint cover. lol
My two suggestions are Victorian Murderesses by Mary S. Hartman- which covers 13 British and French female killers such as Constance Kent, Madeline Smith, Florence Maybrick, Adelaide Bartlett, etc. And A Very British Murder by Lucy Worsely which is very entertaining and informative. It explores how real-life crime, science and the emerging art of detection influenced popular conceptions of homicide- basically how strange sods like us became so fascinated by murder! Highly recommended and fun.

Hi Penny,

Thanks for those recommendations but I know all those murders and have individual books about them.

The Riddle of Birdhurst Rise is one I keep re-reading, I love a murder that is a bit of a whodunnit. Another book (about the case) was written a few years ago by Diane Janes but it was such a load of cods that I actually wrote to the author to tell her so. (I was very polite btw). She wrote me a 6 page email back - she was quite annoyed that anyone had the nerve to pick holes in her (idiotic) theory.

Richard Whittington Egan is a terrific writer. I think it's worth reading all his books on true crime.

I often write to authors if I have enjoyed their books.

Another good read that springs to mind is the little heard of one - Heaven Knows Who by Christianna Brand. It centres on one murder in Glasgow in the late 19th century but it's a fascinating one. Another whodunnit.

https://www.amazon.com/Heaven-Knows-Who-Jessie-MLachlan-ebook/dp/B01FGVUW2I

.

[Penny_Dredfull]

Louisa- What I neglected to say about the Hartman book is that it is much more than just a basic recounting of each murderous tale. It compares each British female murderer with an equivalent French one. So, whereas you may have read before of Kent, Bartlett, Maybrick, etc, you may not be familiar with Marie Lafarge, Henriette Francey, Euphemie Lacoste, Celestine Doudet, Angeline Lemoine or Gabrielle Fenayrou. Hartman also examines the behaviour of these women in terms of socio-cultural history. So, I still think it's worth a look.

[Penny_Dredfull]

Louisa- Another thought: A murder which is in many ways as mysterious and unsolved as the Julia Wallace case is that of Caroline Mary Luard- referred to variously as the Seal Chart or Igtham murder. There's little written on it- I first read about it in a book by Julian Symons called A Reasonable Doubt. It came out in 1960 and I don't know if it's still in print. (Probably not- a lot of the great true crime books I love are out of print!) But there is a more recent book (2007) called Edwardian Murder: Igtham and the Morpeth Train Robbery by Diane Janes that discusses it. I know Minette Walters wrote a short work of crime fiction based on it called A Dreadful Murder. Haven't read it, so if you do let me know what you think! Happy reading!