HELP I need some new books - Recommendations?

[Penny_Dredfull]

Louisa- Heath's first victim, Margery Gardner was the one found in the hotel room in Notting Hill Gate. It was said she "liked bondage" but I'm not sure where this assertion comes from. At any rate, a little whipping and bondage is a a far cry from having your nipples bitten off and being beaten with a poker so hard that you have internal injuries.

The second victim in Bournemouth was found in the "chimes' or sand dunes near the sea front. She was found bound, her throat was slashed, her nipple bitten off, she'd been savagely beaten and some kind of instrument had been violently thrust inside her vagina. I think she accompanied Heath that evening for what she thought was a romantic stroll. His veneer of respectability and guise of a military hero made her trust him. She had no idea what was coming.

[Penny_Dredfull]

Louisa- Well, I'm not surprised she wasn't chuffed about that! LOL

If I wrote letters to all the true crime author's whose theories I found preposterous, I'd be very busy indeed!

[louisa]

Louisa- Heath's first victim, Margery Gardner was the one found in the hotel room in Notting Hill Gate. It was said she "liked bondage" but I'm not sure where this assertion comes from. At any rate, a little whipping and bondage is a a far cry from having your nipples bitten off and being beaten with a poker so hard that you have internal injuries.

The second victim in Bournemouth was found in the "chimes' or sand dunes near the sea front. She was found bound, her throat was slashed, her nipple bitten off, she'd been savagely beaten and some kind of instrument had been violently thrust inside her vagina. I think she accompanied Heath that evening for what she thought was a romantic stroll. His veneer of respectability and guise of a military hero made her trust him. She had no idea what was coming.

I had an idea that Heath and Margery Gardner had met on previous occasions for a bit of bondage and whipping. This time it obviously went too far.

He deserved all he got - pure evil.

[louisa]

Louisa- Well, I'm not surprised she wasn't chuffed about that! LOL

If I wrote letters to all the true crime author's whose theories I found preposterous, I'd be very busy indeed!

I don't normally find theories in books preposterous. It was just this one. I suppose I knew the story so well that it made me angry that somebody should write a book for others to read, people who may not be familiar with the story and had never read the RWE one, and believe the ridiculous theories that this book stated.

I have sometimes written to authors to praise them. I wrote to one author (who I think is a member on this forum) because he had got a couple of details wrong in his book. He wrote back thanking me for pointing them out. He was in the middle of writing a revised version anyway. He admitted he hadn't properly researched the book before it was published.

Another good book by RWE is 'The Ordeal of Philip Yale Drew' (another whodunnit). And of course there's the Oscar Slater one by the same author, which is interesting as well.

.

[Graham]

Hey Louisa!

I know you prefer British to American cases (and so do I) but have you read much about the Lindbergh Baby Kidnapping? When I first got interested in this, it was a case of 'stone me, Hauptmann did it and no mistake'. Yet a few books and internet articles later, I ain't so sure. It seemed open and closed at the time, and for decades afterwards, but was it? The best book on the case IMHO is 'The Airman And The Carpenter' by good ole Ludovic Kennedy.

Another American mystery (though not a murder, so far as is known) that I'm riveted by, is what happened to Amelia Earhart? So many myths and, it has to be said, pure bullshit, has been attached to this over the years that it's become difficult to distinguish between fact and fiction; but for sure something went wrong during that fateful flight. What really did happen has yet to be discovered.

Graham

[Mayerling]

Mayerling- I agree with you, the Louise Masset case is very interesting. True, there were cases of murderous baby farmers which lent some plausibility to her tale. But we will never know. And the murder weapon was a brick, by the way- although the child was also apparently suffocated. The brick was supposed to be identical with ones found in a rockery in the garden of the house where Masset lived. The bundle of Manfred's clothes found at Brighton station was contained in a piece of paper said to be torn from a larger piece at the child's foster mother's home. Also, the black shawl in which the child's body was wrapped was testified by a draper to be similar to one he sold Masset a few days prior to the murder. All of this, taken together with her supposed motive of ridding herself of her illegitimate child who was an obstacle to her being with her lover, hanged her.

The TV series about a character named "Gorse" which you mentioned is called "The Charmer" and starred Nigel Havers as Ralph Earnest Gorse. It was made by LWT but was also shown on Masterpiece Theatre in the US. It was loosely based on the 1950's Gorse Trilogy by Patrick Hamilton which was in turn loosely based on Nigel Heath.

Hi Penny,

Thanks for naming the series "The Charmer". I saw the last two episodes of it, and it was taking some liberties with the Heath Case. Patrick Hamilton is best recalled for his play, "Angel Street", which was the basis of the film of that name with Anton Walbrook, and later the American version called "Gaslight", with Ingrid Bergman, Charles Boyer, Joseph Cotton, and Angela Lansbury. He also did the play "Rope" which was the basis of the Alfred Hitchcock film of that name (the experimental one with the long takes which made it almost a photographed one set play). "Rope" was based on the Leopold and Loeb Case (loosely again).

Jeff

[louisa]

Hey Louisa!

I know you prefer British to American cases (and so do I) but have you read much about the Lindbergh Baby Kidnapping? When I first got interested in this, it was a case of 'stone me, Hauptmann did it and no mistake'. Yet a few books and internet articles later, I ain't so sure. It seemed open and closed at the time, and for decades afterwards, but was it? The best book on the case IMHO is 'The Airman And The Carpenter' by good ole Ludovic Kennedy.

Another American mystery (though not a murder, so far as is known) that I'm riveted by, is what happened to Amelia Earhart? So many myths and, it has to be said, pure bullshit, has been attached to this over the years that it's become difficult to distinguish between fact and fiction; but for sure something went wrong during that fateful flight. What really did happen has yet to be discovered.

Graham

Hi Graham,

I know the Lindbergh kidnapping story quite well. Not many of the big cases have escaped my notice! Lol.

I think Hauptmann was involved in the plot but I suspect Fischer to have actually done the dirty work, i.e. the kidnapping itself, which went badly wrong.

Having said that, I remember reading (going from memory now) that Anne's sister lived with the family at Hopewell and she wasn't mentally 'normal' and behaved very strangely. The baby had gone missing once before and was found (alive) inside a garbage bin at the back of the house. The nutty sister had put him there.

Is it possible the sister had killed the baby and the murder was 'covered up' by the family. (A bit like the Jonbenet case in that respect) Would the Lindberghs have allowed an innocent man to go to the electric chair in order to save their reputation?


Amelia Earhart - that's one that re-occurs on the C & I channel quite freqently. It's a mystery. Didn't she end up in New Guinea?

.

[Graham]

Hi Graham,

I know the Lindbergh kidnapping story quite well. Not many of the big cases have escaped my notice! Lol.

I think Hauptmann was involved in the plot but I suspect Fischer to have actually done the dirty work, i.e. the kidnapping itself, which went badly wrong.

Having said that, I remember reading (going from memory now) that Anne's sister lived with the family at Hopewell and she wasn't mentally 'normal' and behaved very strangely. The baby had gone missing once before and was found (alive) inside a garbage bin at the back of the house. The nutty sister had put him there.

Is it possible the sister had killed the baby and the murder was 'covered up' by the family. (A bit like the Jonbenet case in that respect) Would the Lindberghs have allowed an innocent man to go to the electric chair in order to save their reputation?

I'm 100% certain that Hauptmann was involved one way or the other, but whether he was guilty of murder I rather doubt. Fisch was a strange character who hopped it back to Germany where he dies not long afterwards. Lots of mystery in this case - like was the skeleton found near Hopewell really that of Charles Jr? Why did Lindbergh appear to put his trust in Condon, a crank if ever there was one, rather than the police? Did the baby die accidentally as a result of a prank by Lindbergh?

Amelia Earhart - that's one that re-occurs on the C & I channel quite freqently. It's a mystery. Didn't she end up in New Guinea?

Neither Amelia nor her navigator Fred Noonan where seen again following their last take-off from Lae Island. Some radio transmissions from her were picked up, but it seemed that she couldn't receive. Her destination was Howland Island, but she never made it and she simply disappeared. An extensive search produced nothing. All sorts of rumours abounded, including one that her plane had been shot down by the Japanese and she and Noonan taken prisoner and later executed....don't somehow think so.
In later years various clues were found on uninhabited Gardner Island, and an American research group has carried out regular searches at great expense, and although they appear confident that the plane crash-landed on Gardner, no real proof has yet been found. They're still looking!

Graham

[louisa]

Did the baby die accidentally as a result of a prank by Lindbergh?

What kind of prank could he pull that could result in the death of his baby?

He didn't seem like the type of person who had much of a sense of humour, let alone pull a prank.

But if he - or one of the family - were somehow responsible then he had a lot to lose. He was a national hero.
.

[Penny_Dredfull]

Mayerling- I like Gaslight and Rope, as well. But, yeah, one always has to add the caveat "loosely based". Or, as Hollywood likes to say "inspired by true events"!

[Penny_Dredfull]

Louisa- For some reason Philip Yale Drew and Oscar Slater never got my juices flowing. There are other cases of the early 20th Century that I find more interesting. Of the cases which RWE addressed I like JTR, the Croydon poisonings, the torso murders and George Edalji best.

[Graham]

What kind of prank could he pull that could result in the death of his baby?

He didn't seem like the type of person who had much of a sense of humour, let alone pull a prank.

But if he - or one of the family - were somehow responsible then he had a lot to lose. He was a national hero.
.

I read ages ago (not in Kennedy's book, I don't think) that Lindbergh was something of a macho type and liked boisterous play with his son. It was suggested that the child was accidentally killed during a play session, something which I totally refuse to accept. There were other odd things about the case, such as the English housemaid who committed suicide, and the babble if Italian that Condon claimed to have heard when he was talking to 'John' on the phone. Lots more to this case than meets the eye (where have I heard that before, I ask....?)

Graham

[Graham]

Re: Oscar Slater, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle worked very hard to help Slater, accused of the murder of Marion Gilchrist. Slater appeared to be a victim of false identity, lies, and police corruption. His death-sentence was commuted on appeal, and he spent 18 years in clink. Doyle came on the scene quite late, at the request of Slater's solicitor who was impressed by Doyle's handling of the Edalji case. He got Slater off, and his conviction quashed. Slater received £6000 in damages, but refused to reimburse the people who had worked hard for his release, and as a (rather expected) result of this, Doyle told him where to go and Slater more or less vanished from history. The murder of Marion Gilchrist was never solved. I agree, not a case to set the pulses racing, but interesting all the same.

Graham

[louisa]

Re: Oscar Slater, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle worked very hard to help Slater, accused of the murder of Marion Gilchrist. Slater appeared to be a victim of false identity, lies, and police corruption. His death-sentence was commuted on appeal, and he spent 18 years in clink. Doyle came on the scene quite late, at the request of Slater's solicitor who was impressed by Doyle's handling of the Edalji case. He got Slater off, and his conviction quashed. Slater received £6000 in damages, but refused to reimburse the people who had worked hard for his release, and as a (rather expected) result of this, Doyle told him where to go and Slater more or less vanished from history. The murder of Marion Gilchrist was never solved. I agree, not a case to set the pulses racing, but interesting all the same.

Graham

Yes I found it interesting too. I like a case that has a few twists and turns. £6,000 as compensation would have been a fortune back then, but I think that anyone who has been falsely imprisoned for that amount of time fully deserves the money. Nothing can truly compensate though. Especially as prison life in those days must have been hellish.

I don't think I'm familiar with the Edalji case. Is it an interesting one?

I agree that the Lindbergh kidnapping probably had a lot more about it than we may ever know.

And those dodgy cemetery meetings and cryptic newspaper notices - something wasn't quite kosher about any of it.

If Lindbergh allowed an innocent man to go to his death simply to save his own reputation then that was despicable.
.

[Mayerling]

Hi Louisa,

The George Edalji Case (better known as the "Wyrlie Mystery" because of it's location in Britain, is about how a solicitor, George Edalji, was tried and convicted of mutilating cattle and horses in the English midlands over a period of two or three years in 1903. He was also disbarred as a result. He sent a letter from prison to Arthur Conan Doyle requesting aid, and Conan Doyle went to meet him. People frequently forget that before he was an author he was Dr. Arthur Conan Doyle, and that he had studied the eyes and ocular problems for a considerable time when deciding if he wanted to be a specialist. He met Edalji in prison, and realized looking at the man's eyes he could not be the mutilator. The mutilations had occurred at nighttime, in the open, and required 20-20 vision by the person who committed them. Edalji's eyes tipped Conan Doyle off that the man had night blindness.

As you can tell by his name "Edalji" was not of native born Anglo-Saxon stock. Like the later British murderer Buck Ruxton, he was a Parsee (i.e., of Indian background). His father was a minister who had moved to England, and held his clerical position there (and was able to send George to schools as a result). Conan Doyle realized (when studying the trial evidence and documents) that local racial prejudice (particularly with the police) played a strong part in the prosecution of Edalji. The solicitor's family had also suffered one of the mutilations, and so the local police, given the prejudice, decided to concentrate on George as a suspect. So he was convicted as a result. But Conan Doyle discovered afterwards that the mutilations had continued after Edalji's arrest, conviction, and imprisonment.

I won't spoil what Conan Doyle discovered, but he did get Edalji cleared in the end. His actions in the Edalji Case were to be one of two notorious cases in the first decade of the 20th Century (the other is the "Adolph Beck Case") of mistaken identity or prejudices, that led to a revamping of the criminal appeals system in Great Britain in 1907. A series about Conan Doyle and Edalji was on television from the BBC about three years ago. It was due to his involvement here that Doyle was drawn into the "Oscar Slater" Case of 1908, which (because Slater was a Jewish German) had elements of bigotry (albeit anti-Semitism) involved.

By the way, there has been some suggestion that the central crime of the Edalji Case (the cattle and horse mutilations) were the basis for Peter Schaeffer's play "Equus" back in the 1970s, which also deals with horse mutilations - but that deals not so much with criminal prosecution but psychiatric problems).

Jeff