Missing Manuscripts and Documents

[GUT]

The Marx Brothers only silent movie, "Humorisk" vanished shortly after it was made in 1925. It would be curious to see it, although Groucho admitted he didn't recall it was very good. But then, his specialty was his verbal wit, not mime (Harpo's specialty). So one wonders if Groucho was just "grouchy" about how the film did not do much for him.

Jeff

I didn't think of that one, but had heard of it.

How about radio plays, we had a comedy series here 'Yes What" the first few years went to air live some others were lost, would love to find them, loved it as a kid, in fact still do.

[Pcdunn]

Some of the "Doctor Who" episodes from the Sixties and Seventies are still missing, I believe.

Isn't there a Lon Chaney silent film called "London at Midnight" that is lost-- only some still photos remain?

[Mayerling]

Some of the "Doctor Who" episodes from the Sixties and Seventies are still missing, I believe.

Isn't there a Lon Chaney silent film called "London at Midnight" that is lost-- only some still photos remain?

Tragically the last known copy of the film "London After Midnight" was burned up in a fire in the 1960s. You have to recall that many of the earliest films were on highly flamable stock (nitrate stock in the film) which not only could burn but frequently exploded over time, even with many precautions taken.

About 2009 a Halloween special aired on the Turner Classic Film network. Using the still existing screenplay, and stills from the film, a one hour "movie" documentary (for want of a better term) was made of "London After Midnight". Fortunately that script still existed, as well as the 1935 remake of the movie, "Mark of the Vampire" with Bela Lugosi, Lionel Barrymore, and Jean Hersholt. Although it can never take the place of the lost film, at least we can imagine what Chaney's performance was like (he played a "vampire" in the film, and images of his make-up as the vampire still exist: quite different and more excentric than that of Lugosi in "Dracula" or "Mark of the Vampire" (Lugosi's vampire is always played as a monster, but one who happens to be of noble birth - remember it is "Count" Dracula - so he moves rather majestically, as opposed to the odd movements Chaney apparently gave his vampire, who moved in a slouch manner, similar (oddly enough) to that used for humorous reasons in the 1930s by Groucho Marx). This special is still shown on TCM around Halloween, and it's worthwhile watching it.

Another lost silent film (there are more of these than lost sound ones) was the original 1926 version of "The Great Gatsby" which starred Warner Baxter as Gatsby, Neil Hamilton (the future "Commissioner Gordon" on the television series "Batman") as Nick Carraway (the narrator in the novel), and William Powell as the fellow who shoots Gatsby. [Powell, in silent films, usually played villains, not suave or funny leading men - his wonderful speaking voice changed the way he was cast in films when sound films came.] Ir actually got good reviews in 1926, based on it's adherence to a popular dramatization of the novel by dramatist Avery Hopwood. But we really can't tell unless a copy turns up. However, there is (oddly enough) an existing 1926 movie coming attractions for "The Great Gatsby" that survived. It shows many of the party scenes, and even a distant shot of Powell confronting the actress playing his wife - but showing all too little of it.

Still another is "The Way of All Flesh", which is genuinely unique. The first year or so of the Academy Awards, the candidates for the Oscars could be nominated for more than one film they appeared in or directed. Emil Jannings was nominated for his appearance as the Russian General in Josef von Stenberg's, "The Last Command" (which I highly recommend to you if you have never seen it), and for his role of the father in "The Way of All Flesh". This latter film is not based on the 19th Century novel "Ernest Pontifex, or The Way of All Flesh" by Samuel Butler (author of "Erewhon") which is still read in some college curriculums on Victorian novels. This one is about a father who has a loving family, but has to abandon it due to committing a crime (I won't go into the details), so that he only appears at the conclusion to watch the wedding of his son through a window in a street, years after he vanished (an ending that sounds very much like that of Barbara Stanwyck's turn in "Stella Dallas" a decade later). Actually a bit of the film has been recovered (about seven minutes or so) showing the conclusion. Jannings, whatever his later devil's deal working for UFA for Josef Goebbels and the Nazis as their leading star, was a terrific actor, and won the Oscar for these two performances. Even the fragment from "The Way of All Flesh is worth looking at for the pathos he brings to the characterization. But the rest of the film (way over an hour of movie) is missing, probably forever. As of this date it is the only movie performance (in it's entirety) that was nominated for an Oscar that has vanished.

Jeff

[Caligo Umbrator]

Hi, Pcdunn.


Yes, Pat, according to an old discussion thread on archive.org, the last known print of the film was lost to a 1967 fire at the MGM vaults. There have been recent rumours about it having survived in other formats such as 16mm or kinescope but these have mostly been hoaxes or April Fools jokes.
It was a very popular movie in its day and pulled in almost five times its production budget. Because it was widely shown at the time and had an international release, there is the tantalising possibility that a 'borrowed' copy could be withering away in a dusty cellar or attic somewhere. However, to the best of my knowledge, no copy has ever been discovered.
By happenstance and perhaps fittingly for this forum, "London after Midnight" also featured as a plot point in the third season of the British television series 'Whitechapel', when a lost print of it is discovered.

To anyone interested, the book which Jeff recommended, 'The Scholar Adventurers', is available in PDF format from the Ohio State University library here: - http://kb.osu.edu/dspace/handle/1811/708



Yours, Caligo.

[Elamarna]

Hi Jeff

from my point of view there are several sets of information i wish were available:

From a Ripperology point of view any records relating to Aaron Kosminski and his whereabouts from November 88 until September/October 89 would be very revealing.(was he in any sort of asylum for instance during any of that time) such could possible seal the case for or against him.

Any records relating to him while he was locked away would also be of interest, but I fear that such were destroyed within the last 30-40 years following the closure of the old hospitals.

On non ripper stuff, the dream would be documents from the Amarna Period, be those in stone, clay or papyrus, which give some indication of the linkages within the royal family at the time, the recent DNA results on this are far from convincing in my view.


Steve

[MsWeatherwax]

For me, it's every bit of paper connected with the Whitechapel murders - I don't necessarily feel that it would allow anyone to solve the case, but I do feel like there might be a hidden gem in there that would give us a much clearer picture.

I'd also love someone to find a wooden box in an attic containing information that finally tells us who the ever elusive Mary Jane Kelly really was. I can wish.

Other than that, anything relating to Boudicca and the Iceni...I would dearly love to know more about her.

[Mayerling]

Hi Jeff

from my point of view there are several sets of information i wish were available:

From a Ripperology point of view any records relating to Aaron Kosminski and his whereabouts from November 88 until September/October 89 would be very revealing.(was he in any sort of asylum for instance during any of that time) such could possible seal the case for or against him.

Any records relating to him while he was locked away would also be of interest, but I fear that such were destroyed within the last 30-40 years following the closure of the old hospitals.

On non ripper stuff, the dream would be documents from the Amarna Period, be those in stone, clay or papyrus, which give some indication of the linkages within the royal family at the time, the recent DNA results on this are far from convincing in my view.


Steve

Hi Steve,

Anything concerning Kosminski (or Osrog, for that matter) that would straighten out the suspicions against them, and other matters (not only the asylum dating problem with Aaron Kosminski, but whether he is definitely the Kosminski who was suspected) would be desireable. Similarly any documentaion regarding Doc. Tumblety and his arrest, his fleeing, and the issue of the matter of Scotland Yard's pursuit (if there was any) would be of interest.

Might add another thing I'd like to see rediscovered (but only if it was real - not another "Maybrick" diary matter) is the missing memoir written in Melbourne by Frederick Deeming when he was awaiting execution. While whatever he wrote would have been subject to massive skepticism, as he was quite the con-man liar, it would have been quite intriguing to read it.

As to our favorite -Egyptology - many ancient papyri have turned up there, usually because the dry climate helped preserve them and they were useful for covering mummy's. I mentioned Menander's play in papyri manuscript, "Dyskolos". Other large fragments of his plays were found in mummy rappings. I recall they found that "Edward Smyth Papirus" on ancient medicine in Egypt (a major find there). It would be of interest for papyrus documents of the El Amarna period, possibly also straightening out our understanding of the final period of Akhnaton, and the eventual coming to the throne of Tutanhkhamun.

Jeff

[Charles Daniels]

So I open this up (hopefully), asking what documents, manuscripts, writings, do the users of this website wish were available at the present day?
Jeff

Everything broadcast by the BBC from 1936 to 2016 would be ideal!

They junked a lot of their programming over the decades, and quite a lot of items I'd love to see personally have been junked forever.

[C. F. Leon]

The full version of most of Lon Chaney (Sr.)'s films are missing- Hunchback, Phantom and both versions of The Unholy Three are among the few exceptions. (I'm actually hard-pressed to think of a fifth that survives intact.) In fact, MOST silent films made are lost- I've seen an estimate of up to 80%. There's a list at Wikipedia, along with a list of missing films of the BBC, including the Dr. Who episodes still missing.
There's always hope- the only known surviving print of Paul Wegener's The Golem and the Dancer was found in a shop selling projectors. They were cutting up the film to give out as samples with the projectors.

- CFL

[Charles Daniels]

The full version of most of Lon Chaney (Sr.)'s films are missing- Hunchback, Phantom and both versions of The Unholy Three are among the few exceptions. (I'm actually hard-pressed to think of a fifth that survives intact.) In fact, MOST silent films made are lost- I've seen an estimate of up to 80%. There's a list at Wikipedia, along with a list of missing films of the BBC, including the Dr. Who episodes still missing.
There's always hope- the only known surviving print of Paul Wegener's The Golem and the Dancer was found in a shop selling projectors. They were cutting up the film to give out as samples with the projectors.

- CFL

A complete copy of Metropolis was found in a film archive in Brazil not too terribly long ago. These things do surface now and again.