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Do you think William Herbert Wallace was guilty?

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  • Is it known if Julia left a will, and if so was Wallace the beneficary, and again if so how much money Julia left him?

    Graham
    We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

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    • Samuel Beattie seems to have been living at 20 North Manor Way, Liverpool in 1939. Born 24th July 1872, he was a cotton merchants manager. He seems to have died Q1 1946, Wallasey.

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      • Graham, no Julia will that I can see.

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        • Someone will explain to this question,for I cannot find an answer in anything I have read,did Wallace account for the four pounds he claimed were missing?
          Now these commission agents kept records of all monies paid,and each payee was given a card which recorded monies paid by them,(receipt)and of course the prudential kept records of money handed in by the commission agents.
          So by checking,either the police or the defence,could establish that there was four pounds to steal.A tedious procedure,being as premiums could be as low as two pence a week,but a man's life might have depended on it.
          Of course Wallace could have lied about money being missing,but proof of the amount missing could only be established by checking.
          Was a check undertaken,or did the Jury have to rely on belief or disbelief of the money's existence

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          • In testimony at his trial, presumably after he had checked his records, Wallace stated what had been in the black cash box. A £1 note; three 10 shilling notes; thirty or forty shillings in silver; a postal order from a WP Stringer of New Rd Tuebrrook for 4s and 6d; a cheque for £5 17s, made payable to Wallace by the Prudential, drawn on the Midland Bank, Castle St; and four 1d stamps.

            All that remained when Wallace checked after the murder, in the presence of his neighbours the Johnstons, were the stamps and an American dollar bill Wallace had owned for some time.
            In the mantelpiece of the middle bedroom was a jar of banknotes, £5 in £1 notes, left untouched.
            Last edited by Rosella; 06-14-2016, 09:00 PM.

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            • Originally posted by Rosella View Post
              In the mantelpiece of the middle bedroom was a jar of banknotes, £5 in £1 notes, left untouched.
              In his police statement (made on the night of the murder) Wallace said "about £4" had been taken. And I believe that we only have Wallace's word for how the missing £4 was comprised.

              The £5 were in Treasury notes. These ceased to be legal tender in 1933. The Bank of England issued its first £1 in 1928; before this time the lowest note it issued was the £5. As you know, one of the Treasury notes was smeared with blood.
              Last edited by ColdCaseJury; 06-15-2016, 12:06 AM.
              Author of Cold Case Jury books: Move To Murder (2nd Edition) (2021), The Shark Arm Mystery (2020), Poisoned at the Priory (2020), Move to Murder (2018), Death of an Actress (2018), The Green Bicycle Mystery (2017) - "Armchair detectives will be delighted" - Publishers Weekly. Author of Crime & Mystery Hour - short fictional crime stories. And for something completely different - I'm the co-founder of Wow-Vinyl - celebrating the Golden Years of the British Single (1977-85)

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              • Originally posted by ColdCaseJury View Post
                IF someone else killed Julia, then the time of the murder was between 6:45pm and 8:45pm. And what if MacFall stuck to his original time of death as 8pm? Surely, the alibi would have been watertight?
                Thanks CCJ. I was just considering the theory that Wallace arranged for someone else to commit the murder, leaving himself free to set up a cast iron alibi. If he was involved in any way at all he must have been acutely aware that he would be the prime suspect without one. Clearly if this was the plan he failed to do a good enough job because there was still potentially - going by all the evidence presented - enough time for him to have been in the house killing his wife before he was first sighted out and about looking for Menlove Gardens East. He couldn't have known beforehand the exact time an accomplice would be able to carry out the deed, and determining the time of death - now as it was then - is a very inexact science, which depends to a large extent on the supporting evidence of when last seen alive and when discovered dead. So it would have been crucial for the husband to be seen away from home for as long as practicably possible that evening to cover all the bases, or why risk involving a third party to do the dirty work?

                I do find everything about Wallace's 'errand' that night, and the way he went about running it, deeply suspicious, because it would still look very odd if his wife had not come to harm in his absence. But that's not proof of course. My instincts tell me he either acted alone or someone else did. Conspiracies can so rarely be maintained indefinitely.

                Love,

                Caz
                X
                Last edited by caz; 06-15-2016, 07:07 AM.
                "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


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                • Another thought...

                  If an independent killer needed to get Wallace out of the house, how could he have been sure the phone message would do the trick and keep him away long enough? Did he hang around watching the house until Wallace left? How did he know Wallace was taken in by the ruse and responding accordingly, and wasn't just popping out for five minutes on another errand entirely?

                  Love,

                  Caz
                  X
                  "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


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                  • Originally posted by caz View Post
                    Another thought...
                    If an independent killer needed to get Wallace out of the house, how could he have been sure the phone message would do the trick and keep him away long enough? Did he hang around watching the house until Wallace left? How did he know Wallace was taken in by the ruse and responding accordingly, and wasn't just popping out for five minutes on another errand entirely?
                    As you imply, there are tough questions for any independent killer theory (except Wallace acting alone, of course). I believe these points lower the probability that someone else acted alone, but this does not imply overall it is the worst solution, given the evidence we have. Of course, your points would not be issues for someone working with Wallace.
                    Author of Cold Case Jury books: Move To Murder (2nd Edition) (2021), The Shark Arm Mystery (2020), Poisoned at the Priory (2020), Move to Murder (2018), Death of an Actress (2018), The Green Bicycle Mystery (2017) - "Armchair detectives will be delighted" - Publishers Weekly. Author of Crime & Mystery Hour - short fictional crime stories. And for something completely different - I'm the co-founder of Wow-Vinyl - celebrating the Golden Years of the British Single (1977-85)

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                    • I would still like to know why anyone would wish Julia Wallace dead.

                      Graham
                      We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

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                      • Originally posted by harry View Post
                        Ginger,
                        Never mind whether Wallace attended the office every day,on that particular day,not knowing of an address,it w as a place where he could obtain information.It was company business,he had an obligation to try.Quite a few leads to prspective customers came via the office,so it was in the interests of the agents to attend regularly.
                        harry:

                        True enough, but... He knew the general location of the Menlove Gardens streets. He had no reason that I can see to believe that finding 25 East was going to present any difficulty.

                        I don't know the rules governing Prudential sales territories, but Mossley Hill, where Menlove Gardens is, seems quite some distance from Anfield, where Wallace lived. This is pure speculation on my part, but he may have feared that mentioning the matter before he had the sale might result in his being told to let the local agent handle it.

                        The appointment was set for the evening. By the time he realized that he couldn't find the address, the business day at the office was over, and even phoning in to ask someone to look it up for him was likely to be a futile attempt.
                        - Ginger

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                        • Ginger,
                          As I understand it each commission agent was given a territory,and there was gentlemens and company agreements,that each agent was responsible for business within that territory.So unless Menlove Gardens East came within Wallace's territory,he would not generally attend himself,but pass it on to that areas representative,but Wallace was specifically mentioned,and he did not attempt to pass it on. Why should it make any difference,if someone other than Wallace presented himself to Qualtrouph?It was a normal insurance transaction.It is,to me,suspicious.

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                          • If Wallace was the killer,he could only have committed the murder before leaving,and an important consideration was Julia Wallace be seen some short time before he would need to leave.There w as one opportunity,and that involved the milk boy.He regularly came a minute or two before or after 6.30pm.I believe,although doubt was cast,that the milk boy was on regular time that night.It must also have been the police and jury's belief also,and led the police to consider that Wallace had a period of from 14-20 minute in which to act.It is only Wallace's word that he(Wallace) left at 6.45.There is nothing to support it.

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                            • The tram stop from which Wallace took his first journey on that night was situated at Belmont Road, which was about a third of a mile from the Wallace home in Wolverton St. He caught a no 26 tram from that stop at approximately 6:55pm. A third of a mile can't be walked in a couple of minutes. Nine or ten minutes is a very reasonable period of time to walk that distance, which meant Wallace probably did leave his house at 6:45pm.

                              Wallace would have had to have caught that tram in order to have been in time to have boarded a connecting tram at Lodge Lane/Smithdown Rd which arrived that night at this stop at about 7:6pm. We know that Wallace boarded this tram, a no 4, because he asked the conductor if that tram went to Menlove Gardens East. He was told it did not and that he had to get another tram at Penny Lane, which he did.

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                              • The milk boy's original statement, IIRC, was that he had spoken with Mrs. Wallace at 6:45 or so. The police subsequently talked him around to the peculiarly specific time of 6:31.

                                I've heard it suggested that Wallace impersonated his wife at the door, but I don't think that's really possible. The man had a fine, prominent moustache, and I can't really imagine anyone taking him for a woman, and especially not a woman that they knew by sight.

                                In the end I'm struck by the fact that the police really, seriously, wanted to lay this murder at Wallace's feet, to the point where they seem to have abandoned all objectivity to do so. Why? That doesn't seem to have been their usual way of doing things. What did the Liverpool Police know, or believe they knew, about Wallace to result in that behaviour?
                                - Ginger

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