Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Do you think William Herbert Wallace was guilty?

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by caz View Post
    Hi AS,

    There may be an intriguing parallel here with the case of Christie and Evans, a couple of decades later. Christie was able to murder Evans's wife Beryl and get away with it for so long because Evans made such an obvious suspect and was all too easy to set up. Who else, after all, was there to suspect at the time?

    If Wallace killed his wife, he knew when he first had the idea that he would be the first person under the spotlight - the obvious, and indeed only suspect unless or until the police were given a reason to look closely at someone else. So before he came up with his Qualtrough plan he'd have been on the lookout for someone to fit that bill as closely as possible. Now if I had been in a guilty Wallace's shoes, Parry would have seemed like a gift from heaven. Just as Evans was a gift for Christie.

    In both the Christie and Wallace cases, it was the husband who was initially suspected and convicted of his wife's murder. So Wallace was always going to have the tougher job of steering the police towards the other man in the story - in his case, Parry. But although Wallace was rightly set free on appeal, for lack of hard evidence, the police didn't go on to obtain any hard evidence against Parry either.

    I was a little taken aback by Wallace's 'thoughts and suspicions' as set out in his life story, serialised in 1932 in John Bull magazine and quoted from in Roger Wilkes's hardback of 1984 [pages 224-7]. While I can understand an innocent man's bitterness and motivation for going into print about the man he believes killed his wife and almost got him hanged for it (without actually naming him), Wallace seems to overdo it with the kind of extraordinary detail that makes it hard to see why he would not have connected all the dots a lot sooner and let the police have chapter and verse about Parry (for Parry it clearly is) and his apparently unique suitability for the task of getting Wallace out of the way with the phone call, getting himself invited into the house by Julia and helping himself to the cash box he knows precisely where to find.

    One could almost read it like Wallace is taking us through what he knows about Parry before the murder is committed that will make him such a good bet as a suspect afterwards. Why ever did Wallace trust the man with his wife and his valuables - unless he didn't, and that suited him down to the ground?

    Love,

    Caz
    X
    Caz- Your comparison with Christie and Evans is spot on. I had been thinking the exact thing lately. Great minds think alike!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by AmericanSherlock View Post
      Are you John Gannon?
      I was wondering the same thing. Gannon's book on this case is the biggest load of codswallop. Just read the reviews on Amazon, for example! lol

      Comment


      • I'd like to make what I think is an important point regarding the blood...often it has been argued that WHW couldn't have committed the murder and evaded the blood especially since it seems the bath wasn't used.

        Well whoever was the murderer was either very lucky or adept at avoiding blood because there were no traces of blood thruout the house except on the walls in that room and the pool of blood right around Julia's body, coming from her head. Murphy points this out and it is a strong point imo.

        So, we have evidence that the normal or expected "blood must have been everywhere" standard line didn't apply here.

        Possible explanations are that the mackintosh was somehow used to prevent blood going in every direction uncontrollably or that the killer was naked, or some combination of both.

        Incidentally, I think these factors indicate planning so I would say they further implicate Wallace.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by AmericanSherlock View Post
          I'd like to make what I think is an important point regarding the blood...often it has been argued that WHW couldn't have committed the murder and evaded the blood especially since it seems the bath wasn't used.

          Well whoever was the murderer was either very lucky or adept at avoiding blood because there were no traces of blood thruout the house except on the walls in that room and the pool of blood right around Julia's body, coming from her head. Murphy points this out and it is a strong point imo.

          So, we have evidence that the normal or expected "blood must have been everywhere" standard line didn't apply here.

          Possible explanations are that the mackintosh was somehow used to prevent blood going in every direction uncontrollably or that the killer was naked, or some combination of both.

          Incidentally, I think these factors indicate planning so I would say they further implicate Wallace.
          OR.....somebody else could have been the culprit and if they were wearing dark clothes the blood would not have been noticed on a dark night. He could have slipped out the back way and into a car that could have been parked in Sedley Street or one of the other nearby roads.


          Back to Wallace being the probable suspect. I've always felt it was just a bit odd that Wallace changed coats, saying he did not need the macintosh because the rain had stopped. For all he knew the rain could have started again while he was out.

          Perhaps it was covered in blood and that's why he could not wear it?
          This is simply my opinion

          Comment


          • Originally posted by AmericanSherlock View Post
            I'd like to make what I think is an important point regarding the blood...often it has been argued that WHW couldn't have committed the murder and evaded the blood especially since it seems the bath wasn't used.
            But wasn't it Murphy who argued the bath was used? Any residual water present in the bath, especially by the plug, would probably reveal the presence of blood (when tested) if he had washed any off. Isn't the whole point of attacking someone naked that you can wash the blood off? Surely, no one could have committed this murder fully clothed and avoided some blood splatter on their clothes?

            I agree that the lack of blood trace throughout the house is unusual. Whether this is probative in the way you suggest, I'm not sure. I don't think any blood trace was discovered in the Courvoisier case (although this was 1840), even though he must have walked naked through the house from the murder scene.
            Last edited by ColdCaseJury; 12-19-2016, 11:02 AM.
            Author of Cold Case Jury books: Move To Murder (2nd Edition) (2021), The Shark Arm Mystery (2020), Poisoned at the Priory (2020), Move to Murder (2018), Death of an Actress (2018), The Green Bicycle Mystery (2017) - "Armchair detectives will be delighted" - Publishers Weekly. Author of Crime & Mystery Hour - short fictional crime stories. And for something completely different - I'm the co-founder of Wow-Vinyl - celebrating the Golden Years of the British Single (1977-85)

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Penny_Dredfull View Post
              I was wondering the same thing. Gannon's book on this case is the biggest load of codswallop. Just read the reviews on Amazon, for example! lol
              I've never reaad John Gannon's book, and for the last time I'm not John Gannon! However, I'm starting to find some of these posts very surreal.
              Last edited by John G; 12-19-2016, 02:06 PM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by caz View Post
                Hi AS,

                There may be an intriguing parallel here with the case of Christie and Evans, a couple of decades later. Christie was able to murder Evans's wife Beryl and get away with it for so long because Evans made such an obvious suspect and was all too easy to set up. Who else, after all, was there to suspect at the time?

                If Wallace killed his wife, he knew when he first had the idea that he would be the first person under the spotlight - the obvious, and indeed only suspect unless or until the police were given a reason to look closely at someone else. So before he came up with his Qualtrough plan he'd have been on the lookout for someone to fit that bill as closely as possible. Now if I had been in a guilty Wallace's shoes, Parry would have seemed like a gift from heaven. Just as Evans was a gift for Christie.

                In both the Christie and Wallace cases, it was the husband who was initially suspected and convicted of his wife's murder. So Wallace was always going to have the tougher job of steering the police towards the other man in the story - in his case, Parry. But although Wallace was rightly set free on appeal, for lack of hard evidence, the police didn't go on to obtain any hard evidence against Parry either.

                I was a little taken aback by Wallace's 'thoughts and suspicions' as set out in his life story, serialised in 1932 in John Bull magazine and quoted from in Roger Wilkes's hardback of 1984 [pages 224-7]. While I can understand an innocent man's bitterness and motivation for going into print about the man he believes killed his wife and almost got him hanged for it (without actually naming him), Wallace seems to overdo it with the kind of extraordinary detail that makes it hard to see why he would not have connected all the dots a lot sooner and let the police have chapter and verse about Parry (for Parry it clearly is) and his apparently unique suitability for the task of getting Wallace out of the way with the phone call, getting himself invited into the house by Julia and helping himself to the cash box he knows precisely where to find.

                One could almost read it like Wallace is taking us through what he knows about Parry before the murder is committed that will make him such a good bet as a suspect afterwards. Why ever did Wallace trust the man with his wife and his valuables - unless he didn't, and that suited him down to the ground?

                Love,

                Caz
                X
                Parry knew where to find the cash box because when he was covering Wallace's insurance round he paid the takings to Wallace, who then placed them in the cash box.

                Did he trust Parry with his wife? Interestingly, there's no mention of the "musical interludes" Parry said he enjoyed with Julia in Wallace's diary. Wallace may therefore have been completely oblivious to the "friendship" that Julia had apparently struck up with Parry.
                Last edited by John G; 12-19-2016, 02:06 PM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by AmericanSherlock View Post
                  I'd like to make what I think is an important point regarding the blood...often it has been argued that WHW couldn't have committed the murder and evaded the blood especially since it seems the bath wasn't used.

                  Well whoever was the murderer was either very lucky or adept at avoiding blood because there were no traces of blood thruout the house except on the walls in that room and the pool of blood right around Julia's body, coming from her head. Murphy points this out and it is a strong point imo.

                  So, we have evidence that the normal or expected "blood must have been everywhere" standard line didn't apply here.

                  Possible explanations are that the mackintosh was somehow used to prevent blood going in every direction uncontrollably or that the killer was naked, or some combination of both.

                  Incidentally, I think these factors indicate planning so I would say they further implicate Wallace.
                  How on earth could any perpetrator possibily control which direction the blood may have spurted, particularly as Julia was clearly subjected to a frenzied attack, being struck a total of eleven times according to McFall? And there was blood on the furniture as well as the walls. And, as I keep noting, it reached seven feet high on the walls, which demonstrates how violently the blood must have been exiting the body.
                  Last edited by John G; 12-19-2016, 02:14 PM.

                  Comment


                  • I've just looked up Gannon's theory and apparently he argues that Marsden and Parry were being paid by Julia for sex. For what it's worth, in my opinion that argument is completely absurd.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by John G View Post
                      I've just looked up Gannon's theory and apparently he argues that Marsden and Parry were being paid by Julia for sex. For what it's worth, in my opinion that argument is completely absurd.
                      I agree it's absurd.

                      I know we shouldn't generalise but I would think that any woman who was that into sex wouldn't have looked so dowdy. Surely she would have done her best to look as attractive as possible. Wouldn't she?
                      This is simply my opinion

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by John G View Post
                        How on earth could any perpetrator possibily control which direction the blood may have spurted, particularly as Julia was clearly subjected to a frenzied attack, being struck a total of eleven times according to McFall? And there was blood on the furniture as well as the walls. And, as I keep noting, it reached seven feet high on the walls, which demonstrates how violently the blood must have been exiting the body.

                        You've missed the jist of my point, which was that blood wasn't traced thruout the house, so whoever was guilty somehow evaded the splatter enough that it didn't drip off of them at all or that their shoes didn't track it, which doesn't fit the "the killer must have been covered in blood, so Wallace was inoocent" narrative.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ColdCaseJury View Post
                          But wasn't it Murphy who argued the bath was used? Any residual water present in the bath, especially by the plug, would probably reveal the presence of blood (when tested) if he had washed any off. Isn't the whole point of attacking someone naked that you can wash the blood off? Surely, no one could have committed this murder fully clothed and avoided some blood splatter on their clothes?

                          I agree that the lack of blood trace throughout the house is unusual. Whether this is probative in the way you suggest, I'm not sure. I don't think any blood trace was discovered in the Courvoisier case (although this was 1840), even though he must have walked naked through the house from the murder scene.

                          Murphy might have argued that, I dont necessarily agree with him on every point. The naked part would seem to indicate washing and fit with that whole theory, which admittedly is confounding since the drains were tested.

                          But, again the jist of my point is it appears that somehow the killer evaded blood splatter enough to not trace it around the house, as evidenced by the lack of blood anywhere else in the house or near the door out.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by AmericanSherlock View Post
                            You've missed the jist of my point, which was that blood wasn't traced thruout the house, so whoever was guilty somehow evaded the splatter enough that it didn't drip off of them at all or that their shoes didn't track it, which doesn't fit the "the killer must have been covered in blood, so Wallace was inoocent" narrative.
                            But to my knowledge the whole house wasn't thoroughly tested for blood stains, i.e. trace evidence. In fact, I'm not sure why it should have been. As far as I'm aware it was just the toilet, drains and sink.
                            Last edited by John G; 12-20-2016, 12:28 AM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by John G View Post
                              But to my knowledge the whole house wasn't thoroughly tested for blood stains, i.e. trace evidence. In fact, I'm not sure why it should have been. As far as I'm aware it was just the toilet, drains and sink.
                              I recommend the link below to everyone. It is a short excerpt from James Murphy in a murder magazine this very year. It starts on page 10, near the beginning. It is about a 10 to 15 minute read at the most. It addresses this specific point, as well as many others asked on this thread.

                              The one issue I anticipate many might have is he is a bit casual with the timing, he says Close saw Julia alive last at 6:30 and Wallace left at 6:45....in reality I would guess that 15 minute frame could have been as low as 10 minutes...something like 6:35-6:40 to 6:48...I never found the timing as definitive of an argument as many, more the lack of blood (which Murphy deals with very well here I believe)

                              The actual killing itself would take only a few moments then a couple minutes to stage the robbery, get composed etc. The real issue is avoiding the blood, and the assumption that cleaning it up would take time. But I don't think a substantial clean up was needed. Murphy argues very convincingly here that the evidence shows somehow the killer managed to avoid significant blood on his person. And if the killer was soaked in blood and someone else, isn't it very fortunate they got away unseen and undetected? No bloody clothed murderers seen speeding desperately in motorcars...Remember the Johnston's didn't hear anything after Wallace left until well after 8 PM.



                              I wish there was some way I could get in contact with James Murphy. I know that he had posted here before. I find his work very well written and persuasive.
                              Last edited by AmericanSherlock; 12-20-2016, 01:43 AM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by AmericanSherlock View Post
                                No bloody clothed murderers seen speeding desperately in motorcars...Remember the Johnston's didn't hear anything after Wallace left until well after 8 PM.
                                The night was cold and dark. If the murderer was wearing black he wouldn't have been noticed and neither would any blood. And he could have parked his car a few roads away. He's hardly likely to have been 'speeding desperately' as very few cars were on the roads in those days. He would have tried to behave - and drive - in a normal fashion.

                                Imo.
                                This is simply my opinion

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X