Do you think William Herbert Wallace was guilty?

[John G]

I have read a lot of comments that the guilty party obviously knew the location where Wallace kept the takings and that the takings being placed back where they were originally implicates Wallace -- that he acted from force of habit whilst faking the robbery.

However an alternative play of events must also be possible -

I am an armed third party.
I know Wallace has money about the place.
So armed with some dangerous blunt instrument I threaten Julia and tell her to give me the cash from the takings and she won't be harmed.

She goes, retrieves them, takes out the cash as instructed and replaces the rest to where they are usually kept.

It is only some time after this act that she is killed

I think the armed intruder argument is problematic. Thus, we know from Wallace that both doors were locked after he left for the Qualtrough meeting. As there was no sign of forced entry, Julia must have let her killer in, assuming her husband wasn't the guilty party. However, Wallace stated that there was only a limited number of people whom his wife would have opened the door to, all of whom were known to her.

[John G]

This is quite interesting. Forgive me if it has already been posted on this thread.

http://liverpoolcitypolice.co.uk/#/julia-wallace-murder-1931/4552924276

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Thanks for this Louisa.

[ColdCaseJury]

This is quite interesting. Forgive me if it has already been posted on this thread.

http://liverpoolcitypolice.co.uk/#/julia-wallace-murder-1931/4552924276

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From the link: "Detective Superintendent Hubert Moore and the CID calculated that the average time was between 17-20 minutes, meaning that Wallace could have left the house as late as 6.49pm. Coupled with the estimated time that the milk boy Alan Close spoke to Mrs Wallace – 6.30 – 6.35, they believed Wallace had time enough to commit the murder. "

I argue in my book that the 6:48pm was the LATEST time Wallace could have left his house. Also Close himself said that he delivered the milk at 6:45pm. In my book, I argue the EARLIEST was 6:38pm. This gives Wallace a maximum of ten minutes to do everything he was alleged to have done.

Is ten minutes enough? It's a judgement call, but it is exceptionally tight.

[Penhalion]

Wallace, if he made the call, needs to at the minimum hope for the following things

1) that the phone will be answered by someone who can reliably and undoubtedly recognise his voice. So that the testimony that it wasn't his voice would be very strong. Not just some passing acquaintance or unknown person who might be swayed on the witness stand

2) that the person who can reliably recognise his voice - doesn't. So he has to completely trust he can hoax this person

3) that the person takes the message, doesn't just advise they ring back a little later when Wallace is there


It seems to me that the voice on the line was not Wallace's.

This leads me to speculate that the person called when they were sure Wallace wasn't there because had the person answering said "yes I'll put him on now." That Wallace would have been able to recognise their voice and the ruse would be up

Thank you for setting these points out so clearly. I agree with you that these are points that Wallace could not count on. What it also helps to explain, perhaps, is why the call was made from a phone booth close to the Wallace home- the caller kept an eye on the house waiting for Wallace to leave so that caller could first be sure that he was going that night (which was not guaranteed) and second that while he was going he was not there yet.

[caz]

Good points all. I just wonder, though, why Julia's visitor didn't take advantage of seeing Wallace leave for the chess club to call that very night instead of going through the whole Qualtrough charade (which could have gone tits up for all sorts of reasons), then having to watch the house again the following evening to make sure Wallace left for the bogus 7.30 appointment.

The only reasonable option as far as I can see is that Julia was in on it and could therefore encourage her husband to attend the chess club on the Monday (so he could be given the message) and to respond to Qualtrough's request on the Tuesday. She could also make sure the front and back doors were bolted while she was entertaining her visitor, in case her husband returned sooner than expected. But why did it have to be the Tuesday? There were no guarantees on either night that Wallace would be out of the way for very long. Did the killer perhaps have things to do himself on the Monday evening (after making the call) that he couldn't get out of?

Love,

Caz
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[Penhalion]

Completely guessing here but could there have been something that would be in the safe by the next night, that wasn't there on the night of the chess match so the person had to set up another excuse to get him out of the house in order to have access?

[Pcdunn]

Completely guessing here but could there have been something that would be in the safe by the next night, that wasn't there on the night of the chess match so the person had to set up another excuse to get him out of the house in order to have access?

Do you mean at Wallace's home? I got the impression that there was no safe there. Apparently he kept his insurance payments from clients in a box on the mantel or shelf. Others will know for sure, but this is what I've picked up from reading this thread and other sources online.

I think your idea about the burglar wanting something particular from the Wallaces is interesting, though. That could suggest the participation of someone from Wallace's workplace, maybe.

[Penhalion]

I'm still getting to know the particulars of this really interesting case, so yes, I meant box not safe.

[Pcdunn]

I'm still getting to know the particulars of this really interesting case, so yes, I meant box not safe.

That's cool. No worries.

But doesn't it seem strange Wallace didn't take more care with the "takings" when there had been several break-ins on his street? If he did mastermind the crime, and meant to make it look like a burglary that went wrong, perhaps he wanted to make the money box easy to get to?

[John G]

I think as regards the money, Wallace took as many precautions as were reasonable in the circumstances, I.e. securing the takings in a cash box and instructing Julia to bolt the doors after he left. Thus, he wasn't particularly well off so I would doubt if he could afford a safe. Moreover, the takings only amount to £4, which even in today's money would only equate to about £245: http://inflation.stephenmorley.org . In fact, there was more personal money in the house, which was untouched, such as the money in Julia's purse and £5 which was kept in a dish in the bedroom.

All of this, of course, undermines the argument that the central motive was robbery.

[louisa]

Good points all. I just wonder, though, why Julia's visitor didn't take advantage of seeing Wallace leave for the chess club to call that very night instead of going through the whole Qualtrough charade (which could have gone tits up for all sorts of reasons), then having to watch the house again the following evening to make sure Wallace left for the bogus 7.30 appointment.

The only reasonable option as far as I can see is that Julia was in on it and could therefore encourage her husband to attend the chess club on the Monday (so he could be given the message) and to respond to Qualtrough's request on the Tuesday. She could also make sure the front and back doors were bolted while she was entertaining her visitor, in case her husband returned sooner than expected. But why did it have to be the Tuesday? There were no guarantees on either night that Wallace would be out of the way for very long. Did the killer perhaps have things to do himself on the Monday evening (after making the call) that he couldn't get out of?

Love,

Caz
X

But Julia had a bad cold. Would she have felt well enough to entertain her fancy man, to the extent of locking the doors so they would have complete privacy?

On another point - Qualtrough's call went through to the chess club at 7.20pm. Wallace arrived at the chess club at 8pm. Would I be right in thinking that 50 minutes would be about the right travelling time - by tram - from the telephone kiosk to the chess club?

[louisa]

Correction to my last post. I got my times wrong.

I believe Wallace arrived at the chess club at 7.45pm (not 8pm) which means there was 25 minutes between the phone call (at 7.20pm) and Wallace arriving at the club.

I'm not saying he was guilty but I was wondering if 25 minutes is about right for the journey between the telephone kiosk and the club, allowing for waiting time for a tram?
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[ColdCaseJury]

Correction to my last post. I got my times wrong.

I believe Wallace arrived at the chess club at 7.45pm (not 8pm) which means there was 25 minutes between the phone call (at 7.20pm) and Wallace arriving at the club.

I'm not saying he was guilty but I was wondering if 25 minutes is about right for the journey between the telephone kiosk and the club, allowing for waiting time for a tram?
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Louisa, this is a key question, and one that I cover in my book. Actually, the call probably ended at about 7:25, giving only 20 minutes. It would not be possible for Wallace to arrive at the club when he did if Wallace took the tram by the stop by telephone kiosk. It appears to be possible if he took the bus from the stop by the kiosk, but we do not have any timings for buses. If Wallace left his house when he said he did, at 7:15pm, and took the tram he said he did (one a few hundred yards from the kiosk), he would have arrived at the club by about 7:40pm, later if his tram took longer than one used in the tests (by the defence team).

[John G]

The call was received at the exchange at 7:15pm, the precise time that William said he left home in order to catch the tram.

[John G]

But Julia had a bad cold. Would she have felt well enough to entertain her fancy man, to the extent of locking the doors so they would have complete privacy?

On another point - Qualtrough's call went through to the chess club at 7.20pm. Wallace arrived at the chess club at 8pm. Would I be right in thinking that 50 minutes would be about the right travelling time - by tram - from the telephone kiosk to the chess club?

Julia's illness, and whether she would have felt up to entertaining a lover, is a very good point, Louisa, and something I'd forgotten about. She had a heavy, chesy cough which had confined her to bed the previous weekend. In fact, on the eve of the murder William suggested that she contact the doctor, Dr Curwen, which she does.