Do you think William Herbert Wallace was guilty?

[Herlock Sholmes]

He can't reveal names yet, it's all a big secret. We'll find out his genius was vindicated in due time. Just like the people waiting on the rapture.

As an atheist I think the rapture the likelier event of the two.

[AmericanSherlock]

As an atheist I think the rapture the likelier event of the two.

Elvis coming back to earth and admitting to the murder of JW is more likely than the "sneak thief accomplice" in my estimation

[RodCrosby]

Because that same night Wallace returned from the Chess Club with Caird and where did their tram stop?

Near St Margaret’s Church in...you guessed it...Belmont Road!

Nope. It stopped in West Derby Road, at the junction with Belmont Road. The only trams that travelled IN Belmont Road were the North/South trams such as the number 26 which Wallace got on the Tuesday night. It was called the Outer Circular route and the buses which superseded the trams still use the route today.

You really thought you could throw some more sh1t and idiots would lap it up. Unfortunately for you, I'm here and... well you know the rest...


Dear reader. This thread no longer discusses the Wallace case, but an alternative universe case where facts and logic don't matter.

Instead of wasting time here, buy a good book about the case. Happily the best book on the case is coming very soon...

Needless to say, the Troll and the Stalker and their malignant delusions do not feature anywhere in it...

[Herlock Sholmes]

Ok, so I took a map that’s been printed in more than one book to be accurate!

It points to a tram stop in Belmont Road just before you get to West Derby Road.
Whatever you wish to call it, it could still have been the one that Wallace headed for when he went ‘up’ Belmont Road.

And I have to ask. Why is it’s exact location (to a matter of yards) so important when the same criteria isn’t applied to the one on the corner of Breck and Belmont? The map shows that it was in Breck just before you reached Belmont. And yet it’s still described as ‘on the corner of Breck and Belmont.’ You can’t say it’s ok for one stop to be described slightly in the wrong place and not the other.

[AmericanSherlock]

The rapture is coming very soon folks! To bookstores near you. No dates or names yet. But trust me ! Blind faith!

[Herlock Sholmes]

The rapture is coming very soon folks! To bookstores near you. No dates or names yet. But trust me ! Blind faith!

He never fails to amaze.

The ego has tried to land but I think he needs a few more lessons

[RodCrosby]

From the Liverpool Corporation Tramways Official Handbook 1904 [the routes were substantially the same in 1931, except they had been extended into the outer suburbs]

The Red highlighted section is Belmont Road, which as I said was no use for anyone heading for the city centre[Pierhead].

Wallace got the Cabbage Hall route to the Chess Club from the corner of Belmont Rd [which would be described as "at Belmont Rd"] and returned with Caird via the Green Lane/West Derby route getting off at the opposite end of Belmont Rd [again described as "at Belmont Road"]

On the Tuesday night he actually did get on a cross-city tram IN Belmont Road [at the corner of West Derby Road] which carried him to change to another radial route at Smithdown Road, and on to Mossley Hill and Menlove Gardens [not shown on this early map, but roughly where the "u" in "Wavertree Terminus." is].

[Herlock Sholmes]

From the Liverpool Corporation Tramways Official Handbook 1904 [the routes were substantially the same in 1931, except they had been extended into the outer suburbs]

The Red highlighted section is Belmont Road, which as I said was no use for anyone heading for the city centre[Pierhead].

Wallace got the Cabbage Hall route to the Chess Club from the corner of Belmont Rd [which would be described as "at Belmont Rd"] and returned with Caird via the Green Lane/West Derby route getting off at the opposite end of Belmont Rd [again described as "at Belmont Road"]

On the Tuesday night he actually did get on a cross-city tram IN Belmont Road [at the corner of West Derby Road] which carried him to change to another radial route at Smithdown Road, and on to Mossley Hill and Menlove Gardens [not shown on this early map, but roughly where the "u" in "Wavertree Terminus." is].

So, to clarify, are you saying that the stop on the corner of West Derby Road (the one that Wallace and Caird alighted at on their way back from chess club on the Monday) couldn’t have taken Wallace directly or indirectly to the chess club?

[AmericanSherlock]

So, to clarify, are you saying that the stop on the corner of West Derby Road (the one that Wallace and Caird alighted at on their way back from chess club on the Monday) couldn’t have taken Wallace directly or indirectly to the chess club?

So frustrating to have speak to someone who converses in riddles isn't it

[RodCrosby]

No more feeding the trolls by me. They can discuss their fantasy alternative universe case until they go dizzy.

Just buy the forthcoming book on the real case, folks.

[AmericanSherlock]

"Buy the book, folks!"

What is the title?

"I don't know."

Who is the author?

"I don't know."

When is the release date?

"I don't know."

[Herlock Sholmes]

That’s the first useful post Rod has ever made!

Thank you.

By his childish and transparent avoidance of answering the question we can all see that the answer to my question is.....yes, the tram from the junction of Belmont and West Derby would have taken Wallace to the club.

And so we have Wallace, in the trial transcript, saying that he went ‘up’ Belmont and not to the junction of Brock and Belmont.

In the English language ‘up’ means along when talking about a road. So Wallace was saying that he went along Belmont Road to his tram. This word has obviously been ignored by authors (whether unintentionally or intentionally)

Rod claimed that this was impossible because no tram in Belmont Road could get Wallace to the club. Unsurprisingly we now know that that wasn’t true. He could have caught the tram at the Belmont/West Derby junction (the same stop that Wallace and Caird alighted from on their return from the club that night.)

And so we have Wallace going to a tram stop, by going in the opposite direction, as opposed to the much shorter route (the route that he took when returning with Caird) that was 3 times further away (as I’d previously stated despite Rod’s mocking) the stop near to the phonebox!

Conclusion:

Wallace would have been an idiot to go to a stop 3 times further away. Especially as he was heading for a club where the games were supposed to start at 7.45. Added to that he walks straight past the stop at the Breck/Belmont junction. Therefore Wallace was simply lying; putting himself nowhere near the phonebox when, in actual fact, that’s where he was. At exactly the time that he’d have gotten there if he left the house when he said that he did.

Thanks Rod

[Herlock Sholmes]

"Buy the book, folks!"

What is the title?

"I don't know."

Who is the author?

"I don't know."

When is the release date?

"I don't know."

“Name the people of substance that agree with the theory.”

“No it’s a secret!”

[RodCrosby]

Repeating DISINFORMATION and LOGICAL FALLACIES [all the trolls have] doesn't count for anything in the real world, whatever their delusions.

"...I went out by the back door and up the passage to Richmond Park and then up to Breck Road and got the tram at Belmont Road"
- statement of WH Wallace, 29th January 1931

Just buy the book, folks...
It's a great book...[I should know ]
And to no surprise, it's guaranteed troll and stalker-free

[AmericanSherlock]

I want to buy the book. What is the name of it? Can I pre order it?