Do you think William Herbert Wallace was guilty?

[RodCrosby]

Are you winding me up? You can't rely on the totally uncorroborated evidence of a man who couldn't even be bothered to attend the trial, despite what was at stake for Wallace, but decides to publicize his "story" almost half a century later, and after the only person who could contradict his account had died.

And even if there's any truth to Parkes' account, who knows how much he accurately remembered after auch a lengthy passage of time. I mean, human memory doesn't work like a video recorder, which has previously been explained to you.

And by the way, according to Parkes the reason he didn't come forward at the time is because his boss advised him not to. And I wonder why that was. Could it be that Atkinson had reason to believe he had a reputation as a complete fantasist?

And frankly, thy idea that Parry would simply drive around for possibly several hours with incriminate evidence in his possesion, making no effort to dispose of it, before making a virtual confession to man who clearly despised him, is bordering on the ridiculous.

We only have Parkes' word, decades after the supposed event that he was threatened by Parry and another, and even if he wss it doesn't mean the other person was Parry's accomplice.

And you seriously call of this wild speculation absolute proo? Hilarious!

Repeating and adding to your falsehoods won't make them true.

Have you forgotten Dolly Atkinson? Or is she lying too about her own moral equivocation back in 1931? Why?

I am too clever to use the word "proof", and have never done so. So more inane lies.

This is like shooting some decidedly odd fish in a barrel.

Most satisfying and amusing.

[RodCrosby]

Oh dear, my stalker is annoyed with me..

[RodCrosby]

Parry was hardly Professor Moriarty, his criminal achievements amounted to short-changing the Pru and hoping that no-one would notice. Why would he go for the ‘Qualtrough phone call/next-day murder’ plan when a much simpler plan was obvious?

They watch Wallace leave for the chess club then enter Wallace’s house while Julia’s alone.

Aye, the Baldrick plan was bound to work...


For those stateside who may not get the allusion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldrick

[Herlock Sholmes]

You’re just piling unbelievability onto more unbelievability. Any reasonable person surely has to take anything Parkes said with a sizeable pinch of salt. We are supposed to docile accept that the suicidally stupid Parry, after being involved in an horrific murder and with the gallows beckoning, takes his blood-drenched car in to be cleaned by someone who didn’t like or trust him. While he’s there he practically owns up and even volunteers information about disposing of the murder weapon!!
Furthermore we are asked to believe that when he eventually told Munro about this his only reply was ‘pooh,pooh!’ So we have the senior police officer being handed the culprit on a plate but he dismisses the idea!

You have the nerve to criticise others!

Can you hear yourself when you say things like: ‘I am too clever to use the word proof.’ Few people have such unwarranted arrogance. And when your drivel is pointed out to you you talk about Baldrick!

‘A Peddler Of untruths...’ a perfect description of yourself. Avoiding debate when people point out nonesense by resorting to infantile insults. Ignoring anything that goes against your ‘theory’ even though every single sentient being on the planet could see the relevance of those points. You have Moriarty Parry and the Masked Marvel going for a phone plan that could have easily gone astray if Wallace hadn’t gotten the message or had decided not to go to Menlove Gardens East when they could easily have committed the crime while he was at the chess club (a yawning silence on that point I see, surprise, surprise.)

You exhibit every trait of the typical conspiracy theorist!! Most people on this forum are adult enough to debate without insult. They don’t lapse into tantrums because everyone doesn’t simply tell them what a genius they are for ‘solving’ the case. Adults debate and disagree and debate again. With you, any form of disagreement ends the debate.

[RodCrosby]

You’re just piling unbelievability onto more unbelievability. Any reasonable person surely has to take anything Parkes said with a sizeable pinch of salt. We are supposed to docile accept that the suicidally stupid Parry, after being involved in an horrific murder and with the gallows beckoning, takes his blood-drenched car in to be cleaned by someone who didn’t like or trust him. While he’s there he practically owns up and even volunteers information about disposing of the murder weapon!!
Furthermore we are asked to believe that when he eventually told Munro about this his only reply was ‘pooh,pooh!’ So we have the senior police officer being handed the culprit on a plate but he dismisses the idea!

You have the nerve to criticise others!

Can you hear yourself when you say things like: ‘I am too clever to use the word proof.’ Few people have such unwarranted arrogance. And when your drivel is pointed out to you you talk about Baldrick!

‘A Peddler Of untruths...’ a perfect description of yourself. Avoiding debate when people point out nonesense by resorting to infantile insults. Ignoring anything that goes against your ‘theory’ even though every single sentient being on the planet could see the relevance of those points. You have Moriarty Parry and the Masked Marvel going for a phone plan that could have easily gone astray if Wallace hadn’t gotten the message or had decided not to go to Menlove Gardens East when they could easily have committed the crime while he was at the chess club (a yawning silence on that point I see, surprise, surprise.)

You exhibit every trait of the typical conspiracy theorist!! Most people on this forum are adult enough to debate without insult. They don’t lapse into tantrums because everyone doesn’t simply tell them what a genius they are for ‘solving’ the case. Adults debate and disagree and debate again. With you, any form of disagreement ends the debate.

My, this barrel sure does have an endless supply of fish!

a) Parkes's story was fixed before the Radio Show first brought the name "Parry" to the world.
b) Parkes was supported by a somewhat-uncomfortable Dolly Atkinson who, we may deduce, was also clearing her conscience in 1981.
c) Parry had not intended to be "involved" in any murder. People in unexpected, stressful situations often panic, and make compromising revelations to acquaintances.
d) Neither Parry nor the car were "blood-drenched." Only the glove had blood-stains on it. Indeed, this lack of bloodstains puzzled Parkes so much that he was given to flights of fancy as to how Parry had avoided the blood, without registering a more plausible explanation...
e) Parkes and Atkinson told Moore, not Munro, after Wallace was convicted. Moore said other things in addition to "Pooh-pooh!"
f) Shortly afterwards, Wallace was freed on Appeal, with curiously little explanation, in a unique reversal of a jury's verdict.
g) The Police never like admitting their blunders, and the Police and legal system do not work as you imagine.
h) If Wallace hadn't got the message, etc. then there would have been no crime, as the plot would have stalled. And your point is? I have explained why the crime had to be committed on the Tuesday, by an accomplice. Go look it up.
i) When people make false characterisation of me or put words in my mouth, I am entitled to hit back, "cleverly" if I wish. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.
j) endless tedious projections and characterisation of my behaviour, which is of course actually YOUR behaviour.... Appeals to imaginary galleries... Have you such lack of self-awareness not to notice that YOU are the ONE who is actually SHOUTING and SCREAMING? I suppose babies don't notice either...

[Herlock Sholmes]

Firstly, I’m quite happy to leave it to the judgment of anyone reading this thread to see who is the one being insulting, arrogant and stroppy. It’s apparently something that you have form for. But like the drunk who comes home every Saturday night with a black eye it’s always the other blokes fault. You have the gall to accuse me of a lack of self-awareness. I think that you will find a rather large queue of people willing to tell you it’s the other way around.

I was wrong to use the phrase ‘blood drenched’ in relation to the whole car. And it was of course Moore and not Munro that heard Parkes story.

Nothing that you say alters the fact that Parry took a completely unnecessary risk firstly by just taking his car to be cleaned and as a consequence allowing Parkes to see the glove (which he’d had ample time to dispose of) and then to compound things he puts his neck in the noose by volunteering information about disposing of a murder weapon. You can’t simply dismiss this by saying things about ‘stressful situations’ and people making ‘compromising statements to acquaintances.’ Whether these events took place or not any reasonable person would, at the very least, admit to some doubt that someone who had come up with the ‘Qualtrough Plan’, would then compromise it all by these unnecessary and unforced risks.

I quickly scanned so far back in the thread but I can’t see your explaination for why the plan had to happen on the Tuesday but it’s undoubtedly nonsense anyway.

And still no proper response to your blatantly dishonest twist on the Menlove Gardens East/policeman episode. What a surprise!

And then there’s your ludicrously inept reasoning that Wallace would have naturally bypassed the Parlour to check upstairs (including the lab for Christ’s sake!)

Your obsessive championing Saint William is quite laughable and I in fact repeat my earlier question: are you related? While I accept the possibility that he could indeed have been innocent you refuse to look at things from any other point of view. Even when someone merely points out examples of strange or suspicious behaviour (not in themselves proof of guilt of course) you fly into full ‘irate mode’ at the mere suggestion.

Wallace could be innocent. Parry could be guilty. No one knows for certain. Only someone monumentally arrogant would expect everyone else to meekly accept their version of events without question and yet fly into a strop when someone suggests an alternative for discussion/debate. ( Two words that you may wish to look up in the dictionary.)

[RodCrosby]

[AmericanSherlock]

This will be my last direct response to you. You need to be booted out of here. I am normally against this form of censure, but you are an exception. Since you clearly have a mental illness, I would be okay with giving you a stern warning first, before spanking you. This goes beyond normal disagreement or mild trolling/insulting. You are actively trying to ruin the discussion here and suppressing any dissent and curtailing rational discourse. I will do my best to see you don't have a forum for this type of bullying anymore, just like the users did on numerous forums and WIKIPEDIA which you polluted and attempted to bully people with your conspiracy theories, illogic, and insane dismissiveness and rudeness when confronted with any opinion different from yours. (Which, since you are the only person who ever touted your theory, means 99.9999 percent of people who have ever weighed in on the Wallace Case.) The problem has nothing to do with the specifics of your theory and everything to do with the unacceptable way in which you conduct yourself and the virus like affect it has on the threads you infest.

You are an absolute cancer.

[RodCrosby]

Yawn...

My stalker's non-life would be empty without me, clearly...

You didn't need to wake me up to tell me, btw.

[AmericanSherlock]

RodCrosby (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log), blocked 48 hours by User:Georgewilliamherbert for editing disruptively, personal attacks on Talk:Barack Obama, "promoting fringe theories and trying to give them undue weight on a major high visibility Wikipedia page concerning current events and national level politics", "acting like you own the Barrack Obama page", "Wikipedia is not a soapbox", and "Failure to edit with a neutral point of view".[1] Two unblock requests denied: [2][3], [4][5] - Wikidemo (talk) 19:54, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

1 of about 100 embarrassing online hi jinks. Just so everyone knows who they are dealing with. The caliber of person.

[RodCrosby]

Ah... my stalker is getting his rocks off in public, on my youthful indiscretions. I'm flattered, really...

Someone hand him a tissue so he doesn't make a mess of himself.

[and he probably thinks Wikipedia is the Oracle of Truth, rather than a Leftoid Propaganda Outfit which battle-scars any morally-courageous person wears with pride]

[Herlock Sholmes]

AS - you’ve summed it up.

You can’t debate or discus with someone incapable of either.

I’ve never heard such biased drivel on a forum.

[RodCrosby]

And so the circle-jerk restarts...

[Herlock Sholmes]

Final comment to the ‘brick wall’ of the Wallace case.

Were wasting our time here trying to appeal to your reason because you have none. Zero. The ability to debate or discuss is absent in you and, like all deficient people, you can’t see the defect in yourself. Some of your posts here have been pathetic, the product of an man with a vastly exaggerated opinion of himself. No one one here has insulted you but that’s all that you can do.

Your point about Wallace checking the first two downstairs rooms and then ignoring the Parlour to go upstairs is laughable and everyone sees it. The fact that Wallace spent a few seconds in the lab looking for his wife (perhaps he checked the chemicals cupboard?) is farsical. A child could see that this is at least strange but not you!.

Then there’s your transparent dishonesty about the Menlove Gardens/Policeman incident. You obviously know Wallace’s actions were strange/suspicious so you decide to twist logic to try and make it appear normal. You said that after Wallace was told authoritatively that MGE didn’t exist he did the reasonable thing and went looking for a directory. Everyone can see that this is crap! The reasonable thing to do after being told authoritatively would have been to say ‘SOD THIS, IM OFF HOME!’ This is what would be reasonable. But Wallace says ‘oh, thank you officer, so Menlove Gardens East doesn’t exist. Right I’ll go and find a directory!’ Only an idiot would call this normal. Perhaps Wallace wanted to check that MGE didn’t exist in another dimension?

Your posts are infantile and you susitute insult for substance because you have none. It appears that everywhere you go people tire of you. Like most fanatics though you see it as a badge of honour. So we can add a ‘martyrdom complex’ to the rest of your obvious defects.

And let’s face it, what kind of friendless cretin spends time on a thread with people whose opinions he finds worthless? What’s the matter? Won’t your imaginary friend play with you?

So do everyone a favour and take your unintelligent, biased, poorly thought out, dishonestly promoted drivel with you and do what you do best. Suspiciously drive around the streets of Liverpool at night filming things....on your own.

[AmericanSherlock]

Final comment to the ‘brick wall’ of the Wallace case.

Were wasting our time here trying to appeal to your reason because you have none. Zero. The ability to debate or discuss is absent in you and, like all deficient people, you can’t see the defect in yourself. Some of your posts here have been pathetic, the product of an man with a vastly exaggerated opinion of himself. No one one here has insulted you but that’s all that you can do.

Your point about Wallace checking the first two downstairs rooms and then ignoring the Parlour to go upstairs is laughable and everyone sees it. The fact that Wallace spent a few seconds in the lab looking for his wife (perhaps he checked the chemicals cupboard?) is farsical. A child could see that this is at least strange but not you!.

Then there’s your transparent dishonesty about the Menlove Gardens/Policeman incident. You obviously know Wallace’s actions were strange/suspicious so you decide to twist logic to try and make it appear normal. You said that after Wallace was told authoritatively that MGE didn’t exist he did the reasonable thing and went looking for a directory. Everyone can see that this is crap! The reasonable thing to do after being told authoritatively would have been to say ‘SOD THIS, IM OFF HOME!’ This is what would be reasonable. But Wallace says ‘oh, thank you officer, so Menlove Gardens East doesn’t exist. Right I’ll go and find a directory!’ Only an idiot would call this normal. Perhaps Wallace wanted to check that MGE didn’t exist in another dimension?

Your posts are infantile and you susitute insult for substance because you have none. It appears that everywhere you go people tire of you. Like most fanatics though you see it as a badge of honour. So we can add a ‘martyrdom complex’ to the rest of your obvious defects.

And let’s face it, what kind of friendless cretin spends time on a thread with people whose opinions he finds worthless? What’s the matter? Won’t your imaginary friend play with you?

So do everyone a favour and take your unintelligent, biased, poorly thought out, dishonestly promoted drivel with you and do what you do best. Suspiciously drive around the streets of Liverpool at night filming things....on your own.

Correct. As you can see, he is banned here like pretty much every other forum this lunatic has posted on. It is not just the "leftoids" at Wikipedia like he tried to claim.

http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/profile/comments/RodCrosby

BTW, some of the stuff he posted here is truly, truly disturbing.

I couldn't care less what someone's political viewpoint is, left or right (within reason) and have friends on both sides of the aisle so to speak, so he has a fake martyr complex over that. I am talking about some really vile, insane stuff that peppers some of the stuff he writes there. Tin-foil garbage.

I regret it has to come to personal attacks, rather than discussing this fascinating case but the reality is the discussion is ruined anyway until we can get rid of this disease. As numerous other forums and boards full of people indicate, we are far from alone in finding this man odious and his behavior intolerable!