Ripperologist 133: August 2013

[Simon Wood]

Hi Roy,

The next time I feel an urgent need to be patronised I'll seek out an expert.

Debra found an Edward Stanley. Not necessarily the Edward Stanley.

So, as an aid to your understanding, please elucidate at your earliest convenience the following.

Taking into account all the War Office Militia Regulations, detail exactly how the too-young [30-32] Edward Stanley found in 1881 arrived [aged 45-47] in the 1888 witness box at Annie Chapman's inquest.

And don't forget Charles Argent.

Regards,

Simon

[Roy Corduroy]

Good find Debs

I spoke too soon. Because as I understand Simon's article, he suggested that being Edward Stanley was Hughes - Hallet's alibi. And from the article I naturally assumed Simon and those who helped him could find no such person as Edward Stanley. In a military unit or otherwise. Whereas Colonel Hughes Hallet was a real person. And yet here Debra found Edward Stanley. He existed. In that military unit 7 years before.

If I understand it, that is. And I say that because Simon's two part series is layered with events and activities of police, press, a politician, ships sailing hither and yon, the military, the actual participants of the murders, such as witnesses, etc. A smorgasbord of people and cross currents.

If I still don't understand, and that's entirely possible, then Simon, please elucidate at your convenience, based on this new information.

Roy

[Debra A]

Good job Debs and Dave...has to be the Stanley.

Mike

Thanks for the input Mike.
Dave, I agree. I wonder how in an era where people seldom knew their date of birth, never mind had a birth certificate, they would enforce these regulations?

[Cogidubnus]

Was Ted overfond of his paid summer holidays?

Speculation I know, but many Militia units were extremely short on numbers from 1855 onwards. In 1860 the shortfall, between the regular forces and the Militia, was estimated at twenty thousand. Per Hansard, there were questions asked in the House relating to the custom of sending of units hundreds of miles away from their homes for the 28 days per year training...a custom which tended to preclude retention. This did lead eventually to more close postings...hence the Hampshire chaps at Elsom.

I do, therefore, wonder whether in practice, in order to keep numbers up, a blind eye was sometimes turned on the strict regs relating to recruitment/retention...and in this respect, an alleged former connection to the Essex Regiment (or possibly one of its pre 1881 constituents) might've been useful as soldiers retiring no older than 45 years of age could legitimately enlist in the Militia...

It wouldn't be the first time a "Corporal Jones" turned the clock back anyway...

All the best

Dave

[The Good Michael]

http://www.victorianforts.co.uk/rga.htm

we find that the Hampshire Artillery Militia were training in Fort Rowner during the course of 1881

Good job Debs and Dave...has to be the Stanley.

Mike

[Chris]

How do you get that as a posting of mine please?

Sorry - my mistake - it was Roy Corduroy.

[Debra A]

Hi Debs

and via

http://www.victorianforts.co.uk/rga.htm

we find that the Hampshire Artillery Militia were training in Fort Rowner during the course of 1881

Cheers

Dave

Cheers Dave!

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Debs

and via

http://www.victorianforts.co.uk/rga.htm

we find that the Hampshire Artillery Militia were training in Fort Rowner during the course of 1881

Cheers

Dave

[Debra A]

One possible candidate for Ted Stanley is an Edward Stanley listed at Fort Rowner in 1881. Fort Rowner is enumerated in the parish of Alverstoke Hampshire, as is Fort Elson. In April 1881, Fort Rowner was home to several volunteer militiamen among them Edward Stanley,a gunner in his thirties, unmarried and born in Bishops Waltham,Hants. His regular occupation is listed as groom.

This man also does not appear in any LVP online Hampshire militia volunteer databases, as far as I can see.

[Cogidubnus]

Simon

For the avoidance of doubt I'm seeking to eastablish a parallel here...what happened to County Volunteers when their County was whipped away from under them?...and the parallel, what happened to County Volunteers when they moved over the County borders?

What is your evidence please that in the case of the latter they were forced to either leave or volunteer elsewhere

Many thanks

Dave

[Cogidubnus]

Originally Posted by Cogidubnus
Simon, you already know that an Edward Stanley can't be found in the relevant military records existing, or that such a record does not exist, because you have a top notch researcher in the UK you work with. Can't recall her name right off the bat, but you have sung her praises before.

How do you get that as a posting of mine please?

All the best

Dave

[Chris]

Simon, you already know that an Edward Stanley can't be found in the relevant military records existing, or that such a record does not exist, because you have a top notch researcher in the UK you work with. Can't recall her name right off the bat, but you have sung her praises before.

Yes, I have sung her praises before.

And I am certain I will do so again.

Does that mean the database I looked at had already been searched by somebody else?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Roy,

Yes, I have sung her praises before.

And I am certain I will do so again.

Regards,

Simon

[Cogidubnus]

So in other words you have no evidence...fair enough

Dave

[Simon Wood]

Hi Cogidubnus,

Lambeth, once a district of Surrey, becoming part of the County of London in 1889 has absolutely nothing to do with the matter in hand.

Regards,

Simon