Ripperologist 112

[ChrisGeorge]

Hello Monty

Yes the man in the white apron does make a very distinctive statement, as you say. Indeed, his pose says a lot about the character of the man. I also accept the argument that Rob and you make that given that this photograph was taken to celebrate City of London Police at the time of Queen Victoria's Jubilee -- some of the coppers after all wearing medals -- that this was an important photograph that would be unlikely to have featured a cook, which the man with the apron could been. On the other hand, maybe they wanted to celebrate the chef's luscious Beef Wellington served last evening??? Just a thought you might think about.

All the best

Chris

[Monty]

Brown photo

Chris,

I think I can speak for Rob on this in welcoming Stewarts caution. Its an extremely wise approach.

However, we are pretty strong in our views it is Brown because, as you can see, he is pretty distinctive. The period matches, location, attire, sketches, theres a fair few positives.

Below is the complete image taken at Moor Lane Police Station.

[Tom_Wescott]

Your ever loving significant other

That is SOOOOOOO gay. Explains that pic of Freddie Mercury you're passing off as Dr. Brown.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Monty]

Paralysed begger

Stewart,

Here is the Times of 9th November 1904 of the very same story.

It seem he was a begger, cheeky one at that.

[Monty]

Didn't I scan parts of it for you from my copy?

You did indeed mate, however I had Stephen Ryders version to hand thanks to this.....http://www.casebook.org/ripper_media/rps.collins.html

Its nice to have a copy of the original though.

Your ever loving significant other

[ChrisGeorge]

Hello Rob

For my money, the photograph does show Dr Frederick Gordon Brown in the City police group photo (c1899). Since his head is angled backward somewhat compared with the drawings, his curly hair is not quite as obvious and of course is receding somewhat by that date. I can though understand SPE's reluctance to agree that it is definitely Brown, as you and Monty (Neil Bell) discussed in your excellent article.

All the best

Chris

[Rob Clack]

Stewart,

I saw so much when I visted....so much, but yes, I do recall the book. Ive an E copy of it myself.

Monty

Didn't I scan parts of it for you from my copy?

That last sentence of the piece on Brown is very appropriate for describing the burnt-out Ripperologist -

"And so, with tears bedewing his cheeks, he was led away to a land of new experiences."

I know the feeling well. Being led away by men in white coats in my case

Here's the Possible Frederick Gordon Brown photo (c1899) me and Neil Identified and a drawing of Brown from The Penny Illustrated Paper, October 1888.


This is another drawing of Brown from Lloyds Weekly Newspaper, 7 October 1888


Rob

[Stewart P Evans]

Burnt-Out Ripperologist

That last sentence of the piece on Brown is very appropriate for describing the burnt-out Ripperologist -

"And so, with tears bedewing his cheeks, he was led away to a land of new experiences."

[Stewart P Evans]

Amusing

I've always thought that this account of Brown giving evidence in the case of a spurious 'paralysed' beggar in 1904 rather amusing -

[Monty]

Stewart,

I saw so much when I visted....so much, but yes, I do recall the book. Ive an E copy of it myself.

As Brown remained childless, and a widower in later years, I suspect that if a family member did have this document it would either be in his brothers/sisters side of the family or his in laws.....if it still exists.

Monty

[Stewart P Evans]

Paper

Stewart,
This pretty much confirms John Churton-Collins who stated in a book complied by his son, Lawrence Churton Collins (Life and Memoirs of John Churton Collins (London & New York: John Lane Publishers, 1912) that:-
[Dr. Brown was] inclined to think that he [the murderer] was or had been a medical student, as he undoubtedly had a knowledge of human anatomy, but that he was also a butcher, as mutilations slashing the nose, etc., were butcher’s cuts
Many, many thanks for pointing this out. It'll certainly be something I'll be keeping my eye open for.
Monty

Yes, I know, didn't you see my copy of this book when you were here?



Jon Ogan did try to find a copy of the paper many years ago but without luck. I doubt that the Medico-Legal Society would have a copy, but his original may have stayed with his family. The extract I scanned above is from The British Medical Journal of February 21, 1903.

[Monty]

Chris,

Cheers.

Yes, Ive had problems obtaining Medical info from the Society as well as St Thomas's.

Its something worth persuing.

Monty

[ChrisGeorge]

Stewart,

Many thanks for that. I have heard, or rather read, third party accounts of (and assumed it was Brown merely discussing his views) this but didnt realise Brown had put his thoughts to paper.

Can I ask, Feb 10...what is that in relation to?

Cheers
Monty

Hi Monty

The paper by Dr F Gordon Brown on "The Whitechapel Murders of 1888" was delivered by him at the meeting of the Medico-Legal Society held on February 10th 1903 with Sir William Collins in the Chair (British Medical Journal, February 21, 1903, p. 474 [pdf file]). I suppose it is not inconceivable that the files of the society still exist and Dr Brown's article is sitting in there. Here is the organization's website: http://www.medico-legalsociety.org.uk/index.asp. Good luck to anyone who cares to enquire. This may be a job for you and Mr. Clack.

Chris

[Monty]

Stewart,

This pretty much confirms John Churton-Collins who stated in a book complied by his son, Lawrence Churton Collins (Life and Memoirs of John Churton Collins (London & New York: John Lane Publishers, 1912) that:-

[Dr. Brown was] inclined to think that he [the murderer] was or had been a medical student, as he undoubtedly had a knowledge of human anatomy, but that he was also a butcher, as mutilations slashing the nose, etc., were butcher’s cuts

Many, many thanks for pointing this out. It'll certainly be something I'll be keeping my eye open for.

Monty

[Stewart P Evans]

Summary

Stewart,
Many thanks for that. I have heard, or rather read, third party accounts of (and assumed it was Brown merely discussing his views) this but didnt realise Brown had put his thoughts to paper.
Can I ask, Feb 10...what is that in relation to?
Cheers
Monty

Why not indeed. I have so much Ripper material lurking about in my files that I forget what I do have. But I cannot take credit for this find, Jon Ogan found it about 15 years ago and sent me a copy. We speculated at the time whether or not the paper that he read on the Whitechapel murders in February 1903 had survived or not. We were unable to locate a copy. All we have is the summary of his paper thus -