Ripperologist 112

[Monty]

*sigh*

Youve waited long enough.

If this is Dr Brown then its all very bizarre indeed since he would outrank everybody else in the photo.

Note the position of the Inspectors, who outrank the constables.

Also you haven"t yet answered my points above about the well known importance,in terms of rank that governs a doctors dress code----to this day, certainly in hospitals.

Governance? In a photo? A possible ad hoc one at that?

Monty

[Natalie Severn]

Thanks for the reply.It may be "ad hoc" but its a tad unlikely since hiring a photographer would have cost a fortune in those days! It still does in schools.
Its why the school photos can cost so much.
So for a doctor of his rank to be posing in his overalls, [virtually], for a fairly formal occasion... I doubt it.

Its a bit like seeing a photo of the Queen posing in her curlers with some off duty junior guards.It wouldnt happen.

psst *sigh*

[Monty]

So why doesnt the cook were a tie?

Monty

[Stewart P Evans]

Still At It

So why doesnt the cook were a tie?
Monty

You are still at it!!! A cook would not, I should think, normally wear a tie when working and cooking, a collar, fastened with a collar stud, as in the photograph would be the norm. I can see that you are going to hang onto this one forever.

[Ally]

Whether anyone will hang on to their own point of view forever remains to be seen as forever hasn't yet arrived. However, the point Monty is making is this:

If the photo was a planned and known about occasion, important at the time, and of sufficient importance that people spiffed up, then a cook was as equally likely to bring jacket and tie for the occasion as a doctor.

If the photo was a planned event, there is no reason that a cook would not have wanted to have looked his best also.

Cook or doctor, whatever, why isn't the man in the photo wearing a jacket and tie in the planned and known about very important occasion of having their picture preserved for all time?

[Monty]

You should think?

Relax Stewart

Im merely replying to Normas post.

Damned when I say nothing....damned when I say something.

Ally,

Im glad you saw my point, to a degree

Monty

[Stewart P Evans]

Fact

Whether anyone will hang on to their own point of view forever remains to be seen as forever hasn't yet arrived. However, the point Monty is making is this:
If the photo was a planned and known about occasion, important at the time, and of sufficient importance that people spiffed up, then a cook was as equally likely to bring jacket and tie for the occasion as a doctor.
If the photo was a planned event, there is no reason that a cook would not have wanted to have looked his best also.
Cook or doctor, whatever, why isn't the man in the photo wearing a jacket and tie in the planned and known about very important occasion of having their picture preserved for all time?

The fact is that we have a group police photograph which includes a man who is wearing an apron, a striped shirt and no tie. Your caveat is preceded by an 'if' which immediately allows for the possibility that he was not at first intended to be included in the photograph being taken for the men in it, but then he may well have been invited in at the last moment.

There is no reason to think that this is a particularly special occasion and it appears casual. There is no high-ranking uniformed officer present and the men in the photograph are not wearing their headgear. Such photos as this are often taken in police circles to show those attending a particular course, ending a period of training or just as a memento. All the indicators are, however, that he is not a doctor or, specifically, Brown. A cook would be happy to have his photograph taken in his daily working attire (at least the apron is clean).

[Stewart P Evans]

Forever

Whether anyone will hang on to their own point of view forever remains to be seen as forever hasn't yet arrived...

Forever is always here - it never began and it will never end.

[Ally]

Hello Stewart,

You cannot make such claims as "A cook would be happy to have his photograph taken in his daily working attire (at least the apron is clean)."

You have no way of knowing what any particular cook would have been happy having done or what any particular doctor would have been happy having done.

On the one hand you are arguing it is a casual photo, then on the other saying no doctor would ever pose so in a casual photo.

You don't know that. Even in Victorian times, people were still people and therefore cannot be homogenized into a collection of "they absolutely would not ever have done this..." with the exception of physically impossible feats.

While I have absolutely no way of knowing who is in the photo, any more than anyone else, and frankly could not care less who it is, it is not IMPOSSIBLE that a doctor, on visit to the station house was walking by and they say, "Hey Brown, jump in here!" and he agreed.

Other points are more valid: he doesn't appear as old as Brown would have been. However, the opposite point is also valid: age is sometimes hard to judge, especially in a photo from some distance where wrinkles can be minimized.

So Monty thinks it is and Stewart thinks it isn't. And neither one of you is right and neither one is wrong, because we are dealing with opinions, not facts. A superficial resemblance from a sketch is not sufficient to claim that it is Brown and is not evidence. But it cannot be ruled out on what we think someone absolutely wouldn't have done back in the day.

[Stewart P Evans]

Argument

Hello Stewart,
You cannot make such claims as "A cook would be happy to have his photograph taken in his daily working attire (at least the apron is clean)."
You have no way of knowing what any particular cook would have been happy having done or what any particular doctor would have been happy having done.
On the one hand you are arguing it is a casual photo, then on the other saying no doctor would ever pose so in a casual photo.
You don't know that. Even in Victorian times, people were still people and therefore cannot be homogenized into a collection of "they absolutely would not ever have done this..." with the exception of physically impossible feats.
While I have absolutely no way of knowing who is in the photo, any more than anyone else, and frankly could not care less who it is, it is not IMPOSSIBLE that a doctor, on visit to the station house was walking by and they say, "Hey Brown, jump in here!" and he agreed.
Other points are more valid: he doesn't appear as old as Brown would have been. However, the opposite point is also valid: age is sometimes hard to judge, especially in a photo from some distance where wrinkles can be minimized.
So Monty thinks it is and Stewart thinks it isn't. And neither one of you is right and neither one is wrong, because we are dealing with opinions, not facts. A superficial resemblance from a sketch is not sufficient to claim that it is Brown and is not evidence. But it cannot be ruled out on what we think someone absolutely wouldn't have done back in the day.

Do you want a one day argument or a six day argument? I do charge variable rates but I am amenable to negotiation for extended periods. One day arguments are less frustrating and have less long-term effects. Longer arguments can get tedious but if you have nothing better to do are better than sitting around with your finger up your rear end.

[Monty]

Do you want a one day argument or a six day argument? I do charge variable rates but I am amenable to negotiation for extended periods. One day arguments are less frustrating and have less long-term effects. Longer arguments can get tedious but if you have nothing better to do are better than sitting around with your finger up your rear end.

Thats why I walk funny.

Monty

[Ally]

I have noticed that most people tend to take arguments much more seriously than I do because for whatever reason, rarely can anyone extricate their feelings from their arguments but I'm game.

Considering that it's already been a ten day argument and nobody has made an original point in at least a week, I'd be likely to pick the one day argument. However, I am always up for a six day argument as long as no one starts pouting and crying like a little girl when I trounce them. You'd be surprised how often that happens.

You Ripper men are so damn delicate.

[Stewart P Evans]

Dungeon

I have noticed that most people tend to take arguments much more seriously than I do because for whatever reason, rarely can anyone extricate their feelings from their arguments but I'm game.
Considering that it's already been a ten day argument and nobody has made an original point in at least a week, I'd be likely to pick the one day argument. However, I am always up for a six day argument as long as no one starts pouting and crying like a little girl when I trounce them. You'd be surprised how often that happens.
You Ripper men are so damn delicate.

Ally you cannot afford me - get back to your dungeon at once.

[Ally]

You'd be surprised how much the men in my dungeon pay me to deliver what I offer you for free. The least you could do is reciprocate.

[Stewart P Evans]

Hey Guys

Hey guys, have you noticed how some of these girlies try to muscle in on our manly debates? Personally I think they should know their place and stick to waiting on their men.