Ripperologist 112

[Monty]

David,

I must say, I think Stewart has been very honest and I welcome that.

Monty

[DVV]

I know, Neil,

I've read his arguments and give them value.
Now the cook theory doesn't make sense, imo.

To me, it could well be Brown.

As to my previous post, you know what I mean, with all due respect to everybody.
But I mean it.

Amitiés,
David

[Natalie Severn]

Well David,would you not agree that unfortunately,given that the ripper world has been dogged by fakes and misinformation , it is incumbent on us these days ,when presented with any new find to check out its likely authenticity?
Do we not have a certain amount of duty to question all claims regarding newly discovered materials about this 122 year old case?
Surely we are not expected to just accept without question ,a premise about such new material, based on their and other"s " personal interpretations of that new material however valid or reasonable , however much we respect the finder"s honesty and integrity?

[Natalie Severn]

I know, Neil,

I've read his arguments and give them value.
Now the cook theory doesn't make sense, imo.

To me, it could well be Brown.

As to my previous post, you know what I mean, with all due respect to everybody.
But I mean it.

Amitiés,
David

On the other hand David, I honestly have some difficulty matching up those images---re age of person in photo /different noses in the two drawings of Dr Brown but most of all I cant see a City Police Surgeon posing in his shirt sleeves and a cook"s apron for a fairly formal occasion such as a group photo of policemen.
I believe if he had had to put on an apron to examine a prisoner beforehand,he would,out of respect for the policemen he was posing for a photo with,have removed his apron and found the tie he had come to work in and his jacket.This is the sort of etiquette that still exists for lots of formal and semi formal occasions such as dinners to celebrate or honour colleagues a convention etc ----often "Black tie " is demanded for the semi formal occasions Dr Brown once attended .
Best
Norma

[DVV]

Hi Norma,

can't agree more, any new find should be checked out. Old finds also.
Now I'm unable to tell whether this pic is fake or not.
If it's not, the cook theory is hardly viable, imo.

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

On the other hand David, I honestly have some difficulty matching up those images---re age of person in photo /different noses in the two drawings of Dr Brown but most of all I cant see a City Police Surgeon posing in his shirt sleeves and a cook"s apron for a fairly formal occasion such as a group photo of policemen.
I believe if he had had to put on an apron to examine a prisoner beforehand,he would,out of respect for the policemen he was posing for a photo with,have removed his apron and found the tie he had come to work in and his jacket.This is the sort of etiquette that still exists for lots of formal and semi formal occasions such as dinners to celebrate or honour colleagues a convention etc ----often "Black tie " is demanded for the semi formal occasions Dr Brown once attended .
Best
Norma

Hi Norma,

do you remember German writer Heinrich Böll ?

That reminds me of "Group portrait with Lady".
Good title, don't you think ?

Now we have "Group portrait with cook".

Amitiés,
David

[Monty]

Well David,would you not agree that unfortunately,given that the ripper world has been dogged by fakes and misinformation , it is incumbent on us these days ,when presented with any new find to check out its likely authenticity?
Do we not have a certain amount of duty to question all claims regarding newly discovered materials about this 122 year old case?
Surely we are not expected to accept a premise about such new material, based on their and other"s " personal interpretations of that new material however valid or reasonable , however much we respect the finder"s honesty and integrity?

Its not new material Norma. Its been around since around 1899 and I know Stewart has seen it many years prior to Rob and I. The authenticity is not in question. The question is of the man in the apron.

I accept what you say however I must point out that Rob and I have never, at any stage whatsoever, stated the photo is certainly one of Brown.There seems to be misinformation doing the rounds in regards we are indeed claiming it to be Brown. God knows how many times I have to clarify we have done nothing of the sort.

The onus of responsibilty lays equally with ourselves as the writers and the readership with regards misinformation. You, and any other who reads the work or this thread, are just as calpable for the way the information is presented and passed on.

We could have held on to the photo and did more research, however we felt we had gone as far as we could and decided present our views in hopes someone else may be able to carry it on.....whichever way it goes.

Its there for all to see and decide upon, its also there for anyone who wishes to pick this baton up.

Monty

[DVV]

Well, Neil, since it's not a fake, the cook theory is...good to sell to Trevor.

Amitiés,
David

[Tom_Wescott]

I accept what you say however I must point out that Rob and I have never, at any stage whatsoever, stated the photo is certainly one of Brown.

Nor has Stewart stated it certainly wasn't one of Brown, so the irony here is that you're both saying the same thing.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Natalie Severn]

Thanks Monty.Yes I can see your point of view here,just as I can understand why you think it could be Dr Brown. It is a pity if people have misunderstood what you and Rob intended.It does happen though.
I dont think Stewart was actually disagreeing was he?----its more the way it was presented on the front cover etc and the difference of interpretation of the pic that he has with you two .
Anyway,one thing nobody is disagreeing about is that you and Rob wrote a really excellent piece on Dr Bond and that was worth a lot to us all of itself.
Best
Norma

[Monty]

Brown Norma....Brown.

True, Stewart has indeed stated such.

Monty

[Rob Clack]

I did not realise that I was required to analyse the possibilities regarding the man in the photograph, nor that I was obliged to elaborate. It is interesting that you refer to it as a 'consultation', which almost sounds as if I was being paid for some sort of service. I thought that the occasion was the visit of two friends who share a mutual interest with me. This is the very reason that I shall not be giving any more such 'consultations.' As regards the census returns, a cook may not necessarily reside on the premises.

Well I won't be making that mistake again. And actually I believe Neil e-mailed you the photo a few weeks prior to our visit to ask your opinion.

[Rob Clack]

The checks or stripes on the shirt are almost certainly an artifact. The same pattern may also be discerned on parts of the apron and the foreheads of several of the policemen. On the other hand, might it be a trick of the light or is there a ring on bachelor Brown's wedding finger?

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

Simply expand the image to 500% and you'll see that the checks follow the contours of the apron and policemen's foreheads. It's exactly the same pattern so is in all likelihood an imaging artifact.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

It's not. It's a stripped shirt. Which is clearly visible on the photograph.

[DVV]

Nor has Stewart stated it certainly wasn't one of Brown, so the irony here is that you're both saying the same thing.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hi Tom,

No, Neil was trying to say they were saying the same thing, but Stewart disagreed and said that Rob wasn't saying the same thing he - Stewart - was saying.
Tired to say that they were saying the same thing, Neil suddenly gave up and told Stewart that he was right saying that they were not saying the same thing.
But at this stage, SPE, who won't let anybody say so, replied that he never said anything that would ever be in agreement with anything Neil would ever say.

Hear what I'm saying.

[Rob Clack]

1. The man in the photograph is not dressed as smartly as one would expect a police doctor posing for a station photograph to be.

Isn't he? Have you got some examples to show us then?

2. He is wearing a check shirt which would seem odd for a police doctor.

It's stripped and would it?

3. He looks considerably younger than Brown's age at that time.

Maybe, maybe not. Age perception is very difficult.