Ripperologist 111

[Natalie Severn]

Look Rob,
I am actually disgusted by the way Robert Anderson and Macnaghten,as very senior representatives of the police hierarchy,trotted out their "theories" about people being Jack the Ripper,the most notorious serial killer in the World ,in their autobiographies.How dare they!Particularly when we have the disgraceful contradictions that exist in their statements.
Kosminski was an immigrant Polish Jew who happened to suffer from some form of mental illness that meant his family were unable to cope with him.He had absolutely no criminal record[B],nor was he ever brought before a court of law -like for example Thomas Cutbush,no doctor or mental health worker has ever been recorded as saying he was ever violent
and yet because of brief piece of nonsense about the habits of Polish Jews together with other nonsense about some alleged "unconventional " identification,this poor man,whose only known activity in the outside world was innocently walking an unmuzzled dog in Cheapside in the autumn of 1889 ,has been forever demonised as Jack the Ripper.
ALL THIS WITHOUT A SINGLE SHRED OF EVIDENCE
Its outrageous.

[Jonathan H]

Aaron Kosminski -- Arguably the best suspect

I tried in a recent article in 'Ripperologist' called 'Safely Caged' to argue that Kosminski remains one of three very strong suspects, argubaly the strongest.

I see what you are getting at Norma about his medical records showing this young man to be seemingly harmless, and no mention of police interest in him as anything, let alone the Whitechapel fiend.

However, I essnetially agree with Robhouse, in that, if Kosminski came to police attention after he had been incarcerated in Colney Hatch asylum then there was nothing the police could do about him, and it would have been dangerous for them to go anywhere near him.

Actually I am not sure that is Rob's position, so apologies if that is me overlaying mine onto you mate.

How this man became a Ripper suspect remains the subject of conjecture. We have the tiniest glimpse -- maybe -- by Mac that his own family 'suspected the worst'. Plus, Anderson's fury at 'certain' low-class Polish Jews who refuse to give up one of their own to 'Gentile Justice' comes very close to being a single family -- who could sue.

Look, I totally accept the Evans-Rumbelow thesis of suspect confusion by Anderson and/or Swanson in 1910, that Lawende's saying 'no' to Salder and 'yes' to Grainger, the Sailor's Home and the Seaside Home, are all being fused in a crumbling memory, with Kosminski's incarceration at around the same time.

It is a wish. Anderson's wish that Lawende had 'confronted' Kosminski but it never happened. Swanson made no effort to back his old boss in public. My theory is that the story, an idiosyncratic mishmash, comes from Anderson to Swanson.

The Marginalia is such a bizarre story that Fido rejected Kosminski in favour of Cohen, and I can see why!

On the other hand, Anderson was the head of CID, Swanson was the operational head of the case. They are both primary sources who were there.

These strengths of the two sources are very strong and argubaly outweight their limitations of bias, memory failure, lack of official status.

Stripping it all of self-serving myth you have a suspect who lived in Whitechapel -- unlike Druitt -- and who allegedly hated prostitutes, who attcked a sister with a knife, who was sexually dysfunctional, who may have been suspected by his family, and who was at least youngish like the man seen with Eddowes by Lawende.

I don't think Anderson was an anti-Semite, quite the reverse, and therefore would have preferred the chief suspect not to be a Hebrew after all.

I had tried to argue, perhaps poorly, that for Anderson's memory to collapse the Ripper case into just 1888, when it went on for over two years, is a symptom of how certain he was about Kosminski. That his mind could not bear to recall that Kosminski had been out and about for two years whilst they pursued dead ends, most embarassingly Tom Sadler.

So it didn't recall it by 1910.

There was no file on Kosminski to consult because he was never an 'official' suspect -- it was all too late. This was also very painful for a man of Anderson's pride and vanity. So he changed it. The Marginalia even has the ultimate wish-fulfillment; that Kosminski was dead soon after being incarcerated.

If you were goping to make it all up and pick some foreign swine to take the rap, without naming him in public of course, you would not pick Kosminski, you would pick a Cohen.

I think that Anderson was flawed but honest. Kosminski was, in his opinion, the Ripper for sure, which Mac the 'politically correct' operator would not countenance, perhaps forever under the mistaken idea that Druitt killed himself the morning after Kelly. Actually, his suspect was also out and about for three weeks, winning a civil case for the Tories in court.

[Tom_Wescott]

Aaron Kosminski -- Arguably the best suspect

Maybe, but only until June.

Regarding Tom Sadler, what's so embarrassing about the police persuing him as a Ripper suspect? He's the likely killer of a Whitechapel murder victim, so it's only natural he'd be investigated as a 'person of interest' with the other crimes. Had Michael Kidney not had an alibi and fell under investigation, no doubt he would likewise have been investigated for the earlier murders of Nichols and Tabram.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Trevor Marriott]

Aaron Kosminski -- Arguably the best suspect

I tried in a recent article in 'Ripperologist' called 'Safely Caged' to argue that Kosminski remains one of three very strong suspects, argubaly the strongest.

I see what you are getting at Norma about his medical records showing this young man to be seemingly harmless, and no mention of police interest in him as anything, let alone the Whitechapel fiend.

However, I essnetially agree with Robhouse, in that, if Kosminski came to police attention after he had been incarcerated in Colney Hatch asylum then there was nothing the police could do about him, and it would have been dangerous for them to go anywhere near him.

Actually I am not sure that is Rob's position, so apologies if that is me overlaying mine onto you mate.

How this man became a Ripper suspect remains the subject of conjecture. We have the tiniest glimpse -- maybe -- by Mac that his own family 'suspected the worst'. Plus, Anderson's fury at 'certain' low-class Polish Jews who refuse to give up one of their own to 'Gentile Justice' comes very close to being a single family -- who could sue.

Look, I totally accept the Evans-Rumbelow thesis of suspect confusion by Anderson and/or Swanson in 1910, that Lawende's saying 'no' to Salder and 'yes' to Grainger, the Sailor's Home and the Seaside Home, are all being fused in a crumbling memory, with Kosminski's incarceration at around the same time.

It is a wish. Anderson's wish that Lawende had 'confronted' Kosminski but it never happened. Swanson made no effort to back his old boss in public. My theory is that the story, an idiosyncratic mishmash, comes from Anderson to Swanson.

The Marginalia is such a bizarre story that Fido rejected Kosminski in favour of Cohen, and I can see why!

On the other hand, Anderson was the head of CID, Swanson was the operational head of the case. They are both primary sources who were there.

These strengths of the two sources are very strong and argubaly outweight their limitations of bias, memory failure, lack of official status.

Stripping it all of self-serving myth you have a suspect who lived in Whitechapel -- unlike Druitt -- and who allegedly hated prostitutes, who attcked a sister with a knife, who was sexually dysfunctional, who may have been suspected by his family, and who was at least youngish like the man seen with Eddowes by Lawende.

I don't think Anderson was an anti-Semite, quite the reverse, and therefore would have preferred the chief suspect not to be a Hebrew after all.

I had tried to argue, perhaps poorly, that for Anderson's memory to collapse the Ripper case into just 1888, when it went on for over two years, is a symptom of how certain he was about Kosminski. That his mind could not bear to recall that Kosminski had been out and about for two years whilst they pursued dead ends, most embarassingly Tom Sadler.

So it didn't recall it by 1910.

There was no file on Kosminski to consult because he was never an 'official' suspect -- it was all too late. This was also very painful for a man of Anderson's pride and vanity. So he changed it. The Marginalia even has the ultimate wish-fulfillment; that Kosminski was dead soon after being incarcerated.

If you were goping to make it all up and pick some foreign swine to take the rap, without naming him in public of course, you would not pick Kosminski, you would pick a Cohen.

I think that Anderson was flawed but honest. Kosminski was, in his opinion, the Ripper for sure, which Mac the 'politically correct' operator would not countenance, perhaps forever under the mistaken idea that Druitt killed himself the morning after Kelly. Actually, his suspect was also out and about for three weeks, winning a civil case for the Tories in court.

Macnagthens memo is innacurate and contains many basic errors. he did not compile it all himslef.When the press asked for a Ripper update following the arrest of Cutbush. Mac directed someone to go through the file on the Ripper.
This file or files would have contained much hearsay evidence about likely suspects who had come to light because they had been found seen or arrested carrying or wileding a knife at the same time as offering threats of violence towards another.

Thats how it worked then and thats how the police intelligence system still works today


Sadly Kosminski came to notice in similar circumstances to Cutbush. He was found waving a knife and threatening his sister. Does that make him a prime suspect no. Do the facts surrounding Cutbush make him a prime suspect no.

You also have to look at the inconsitencies surrounding the police officers "evidence" which many seem to rely heavily on depending on who their suspect is. These officers do nothing other than offer their uncorroborated opinions which were published in various memoirs many years later.

Littlechilds suspect was Tumblety and he stated their were files on him at scotland yard he wrote this in 1894. If that were true why does Mcnaghten not mention him when he issued the memo also in 1894, after all he would have been privvy to the files as scotland yard.

The truth is still out there and draws ever closer

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Trevor,

That was a very good post, and it seems we generally agree on the memoranda. However, it doesn't seem that ANY of Macnaghten's information came from the files, but from his own mind. None of the suspects had apparently been investigated (certainly not Ostrog or Druitt), and were offered up because their alleged guilt would cause no fall out against the government or crown and they were not in a position to defend themselves. Macnaghten himself says there were 'several' suspects, and he's merely offering up the cases of these three. Slowly but surely, we're finding the ones he couldn't mention for purposes of libel and/or controversy.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Natalie Severn]

Trevor,
point of information: it was quite common in Victorian times for people to take up meat or bread knives and wave them about at a family member they were spatting with.But then its one thing for an angry but otherwise fairly normal person to do that----quite another if the person waving the knife was not quite right in the head.

[The Grave Maurice]

it was quite common in Victorian times for people to take up meat or bread knives and wave them about at a family member they were spatting with.

Norma, where do you get this stuff? In the absence of compelling evidence, I assume that sort of activity was just as uncommon then as it is now.

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Trevor,

That was a very good post, and it seems we generally agree on the memoranda. However, it doesn't seem that ANY of Macnaghten's information came from the files, but from his own mind. None of the suspects had apparently been investigated (certainly not Ostrog or Druitt), and were offered up because their alleged guilt would cause no fall out against the government or crown and they were not in a position to defend themselves. Macnaghten himself says there were 'several' suspects, and he's merely offering up the cases of these three. Slowly but surely, we're finding the ones he couldn't mention for purposes of libel and/or controversy.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

i am sure someone will be precise but Macnaghten wasnt even in the Met police at the time of the murders was he ?

How would he have known about the petty thief Ostrog ?

If you look at him in the same context as the other police i mentioned he fits into their catergory offering up a statement but refuses to corroborate it and their has been nothing since to corroborate it. yet why do researchers still heavily rely on it, beats me.

Kosminski or Cohen or whoever you want to refer to seems to have no connection to the Ripper

[robhouse]

Natalie,

It seems every time I respond to something you said, very specifically and directly, you do not respond at all to what I am saying, but instead start ranting about how irresponsible anderson was and how Kozminski is such a poor creature, to be pitied etc. The fact is, neither you nor I know what the police knew about Aaron Kozminski, despite your repeated assertions that there was not "A SINGLE SHRED OF EVIDENCE" and that Anderson came to the conclusion he did out of some prejudice, or theory regarding Jews. There is absolutely nothing to support such a claim... it is merely speculation on your part, and on the part of others who have argued the same. Anderson himself said that his words had been misinterpreted. You are assuming that "his people" referred to the Jews in general, when a much better explanation is that "his people" referred to Kozminski's family, who perhaps refused to cooperate with the police. Again, we do not know why Anderson believed Kozminski was the Ripper. So do not pretend that you know. No one does.

Rob

[Trevor Marriott]

Trevor,
point of information: it was quite common in Victorian times for people to take up meat or bread knives and wave them about at a family member they were spatting with.But then its one thing for an angry but otherwise fairly normal person to do that----quite another if the person waving the knife was not quite right in the head.

Well in this day and age normal people suddenly flip and do that they get arrested and sometimes they get sectioned at once.

People with mental health issues also do it and they get arrested and sectioned at once.

Just because you say Kosminski was not right in the head does that make him JTR ? the answeer is NO

Kosminski is supposed to have come to the notice of the authorities for doing just that but do we know what happened to him following this incident. Was he locked up immediatly was he kept under observations, can anyone come up with any continuity which is whats is sadly lacking in the case against him.

[robhouse]

Hello Trevor,

It is not known when or why Kozminski first came to the attention of the authorities.

Rob H

[Jonathan H]

It is a mystery, probably forever.

As in, Anderson implied the house-to-search revealed his identity, or that of the people who were harbouring him, who also produced the treacherous witness.

Macnaghten implies that the Kosminski family suspected the worst.

But how did the information get from the family to Macnaghten/Anderson?

Moreover why would they breathe a word of it to anybody once Aaron was 'safely caged'?

On the other hand secrets and families can leak like sieves especially if they have rivals, enemies, and so on.

Somehow it bypassed the lower-echelon police like Abberline, Reid, and the rest, and was seemingly unknown to the medical staff at Colney Hatch.

Ripper obsessive Macnaghten went through every Ripper letter, so why not the house to house list too?

In 1891 he found that one of the names on that list was in Colney Hatch and perhaps interviewed a family member and made a mental note of their worst fears -- but not the suspect's first name.

Remember, this is a cop who wants to be action man and hands-on; meeting harlots in Whitechapel, having Adolf Beck round for tea after he was exonerated, and so on.

[Trevor Marriott]

It is a mystery, probably forever.

As in, Anderson implied the house-to-search revealed his identity, or that of the people who were harbouring him, who also produced the treacherous witness.

Macnaghten implies that the Kosminski family suspected the worst.

But how did the information get from the family to Macnaghten/Anderson?

Moreover why would they breathe a word of it to anybody once Aaron was 'safely caged'?

On the other hand secrets and families can leak like sieves especially if they have rivals, enemies, and so on.


Somehow it bypassed the lower-echelon police like Abberline, Reid, and the rest, and was seemingly unknown to the medical staff at Colney Hatch.

Ripper obsessive Macnaghten went through every Ripper letter, so why not the house to house list too?

In 1891 he found that one of the names on that list was in Colney Hatch and perhaps interviewed a family member and made a mental note of their worst fears -- but not the suspect's first name.

Remember, this is a cop who wants to be action man and hands-on; meeting harlots in Whitechapel, having Adolf Beck round for tea after he was exonerated, and so on.

There are more holes in this Kosminski saga than a cullender.

It wasnt until 1889 he was sent to the asylum. If Coles was a Ripper victim that rules him out in any event. As it does with Druitt. I notice Macnaghten mentions the Coles and Mckenzie murders in his memo. If he was so sure about Kosminski why would he go to great lengths to mention those murders if he knew they were not connected to the Ripper, after all the memo was all about the Ripper investigation. Why did he just not say they could not be connected to the Ripper.

As i have said before all this rubbish about him saying "From what he knew" etc,is not worth the paper its written on in the light of all the other "opinions" on various suspects given by other officers in later years.

Why do people want to keep resurrecting issues about some of these so called suspects when nothing new has been forthcoming. All the arguments and issues surrounding these have been done to death.

Personally I would erase Kosminski,Cutbush and some of the others totally from the list of suspects because in reality there is not a scrap of evidence against any of them

[DVV]

Aaron Kosminski -- Arguably the best suspect

I tried in a recent article in 'Ripperologist' called 'Safely Caged' to argue that Kosminski remains one of three very strong suspects, argubaly the strongest.

Hi Jonathan,

your article is about police opinions/confusions etc about Kosminski. Well and good, but I fail to see any new evidence of Kosminski's guilt.

Living in Whitechapel, he is a better suspect than Druitt and Ostrog.
That's all.

Amitiés,
David

[Natalie Severn]

Natalie,

It seems every time I respond to something you said, very specifically and directly, you do not respond at all to what I am saying, but instead start ranting about how irresponsible anderson was and how Kozminski is such a poor creature, to be pitied etc. The fact is, neither you nor I know what the police knew about Aaron Kozminski, despite your repeated assertions that there was not "A SINGLE SHRED OF EVIDENCE" and that Anderson came to the conclusion he did out of some prejudice, or theory regarding Jews. There is absolutely nothing to support such a claim... it is merely speculation on your part, and on the part of others who have argued the same. Anderson himself said that his words had been misinterpreted. You are assuming that "his people" referred to the Jews in general, when a much better explanation is that "his people" referred to Kozminski's family, who perhaps refused to cooperate with the police. Again, we do not know why Anderson believed Kozminski was the Ripper. So do not pretend that you know. No one does.

Rob

Lets put it another way.I have read an immense amount about Anderson,including his own 1910 memoirs,which I have had on loan from the library several times.I have also read several of his "Second Coming of Christ" tracks as well as several books which refer in some depth to his role as a spymaster.I have seen letters produced by Stewart Evans from Robert Anderson to various people.
The truth is that I perceive him in a totally different way from yourself.I mistrust him completely.I believe barely anything he has to say about anything to do with his role as a spymaster or anything very much he has to say about Jack the Ripper.Neither did and do a number of other people.The truth is that your knowledge of political history is weak Rob.You need to situate Robert Anderson in the context of his times.His entire life was devoted to suppressing the Irish Struggle for National Independence and he used British Informers to do so.He may have been right.But personally ,I rather think the tide of history was against him, since Ireland was a colony of the British Empire and most colonial struggles for Independence have been lost,sooner or later,for better or worse.
Anyway,this was the passion that governed his every move,his life"s work if you like, and, like it or not,this is the backdrop to his performance regarding the Ripper Investigation.Robert Anderson had much bigger fish to fry than Jack the Ripper who barely surfaced on his radar.
With this in mind, and given everything else that was said by his senior colleagues that were there at the time viz Smith and Macnaghten but also Abberline who worked closely on the case,and kept in touch long afterwards it is pretty evident to me that Anderson did not know.
He simply played the game with the publishers of his autobiography and the editor of Blackwoods;he inserted a few paragraphs about himself "knowing all along who the ripper was" [with a nod and a wink to his publishers] but also to the astonishment and fury of the Chief Commissioner of the City of London Police,Henry Smith who rubbished the idea completely,and as good as called him a liar and a racist.
Rob,you can try to rubbish Smith as much as you want but that does not answer the question as to why Abberline pooh poohed it all,Smith rejected it outright,in no uncertain terms twenty years after the eventsand Macnaghten favoured Druitt.
Answer those questions for me first and then produse one single jot of evidence to support Anderson"s claim.
Then I will be prepared to take the Kosminski suspect seriously.
Cheers