Review of Holmgren's article in Ripperologist 172

[Geddy2112]

Wrong dude. No doubt about it.

Fair enough, like I said this 'professional researcher' was very convinced they had found 'our' Robert Paul with a criminal record as a 15 year old. The rest of the article about his wife and kids seems to add up.

[rjpalmer]

Okay so who is this? Why would they consider it to be 'our' Robert Paul?

Note the trial date: 1 May 1871.

This was held at the Central Criminal Court in London ('The Old Bailey').

The trial record shows he was a 27-year-old sailor who had just arrived from Southampton aboard the Bard of Avon.

It's not the Buck's Row carman, who was only about 13 or 14 in 1871 and can be found in that year's census.

This same Robert Paul below ended up in Wormwood Scrubs in the 1880s. Wrong dude. No doubt about it.

[Geddy2112]

Okay so who is this? Why would they consider it to be 'our' Robert Paul? Apparently they are a 'professional' researcher

[jmenges]

Ripperologist Magazine had the researcher’s work vetted by two of the best living Ripper researchers alive today, and now RJ Palmer has come to the same conclusion. I have full confidence in their opinion.

Desperate but not Serious.

JM

[Simon Wood]

Robert Pawle, 1881 Census.

[Geddy2112]

Different Robert Paul.

The 'researcher' is rather Adam Ant they have got the correct Robert Paul. Should I just post the photos and let others work it out. I do not know one way or the other to be honest.

[Geddy2112]

...but only on the basis that I don't believe he or Charles had anything to do with any of them (which doesn't make me right, that's just my current opinion).

It's okay you are right

[Hair Bear]

Do you think Robert Paul having a criminal record as a youth makes any difference to the Polly Nichols murder? Like I said I think it could account for the anti-police stance in the Remarkable Statement but could it be even more damning? The Lechmere Theory relies a lot on Paul's 'exactly 3:45am' to make the time gap. Obviously I discount this timing due to the three PC's timings.

I guess at the very least his criminal past might be an indicator he was less than honest with his information given to the press... who knows.

Unless other information comes to light, I don't see how any of Robert's past makes any difference to any of the murders, but only on the basis that I don't believe he or Charles had anything to do with any of them (which doesn't make me right, that's just my current opinion). I would all the same love to see a higher level of research given to Paul - I've had a sniff about, but I have no talent in that field - and indeed other players that seem to have been skirted around despite being pivotal to the Lechmere debate. Got to say I love you guys, as without you my knowledge base would be far more pathetic than it is.

[jmenges]

Different Robert Paul.

JM

[Geddy2112]

Thanks Geddy/RJ.

No worries. Do you think Robert Paul having a criminal record as a youth makes any difference to the Polly Nichols murder? Like I said I think it could account for the anti-police stance in the Remarkable Statement but could it be even more damning? The Lechmere Theory relies a lot on Paul's 'exactly 3:45am' to make the time gap. Obviously I discount this timing due to the three PC's timings.

I guess at the very least his criminal past might be an indicator he was less than honest with his information given to the press... who knows.

[Hair Bear]

Thanks Geddy/RJ.

[Geddy2112]

Yes, this was a red herring. This Robert Paul wasn't fifteen, he was 27 and had come to London from Glasgow. His occupation was transcribed as 'tailor,' but he was actually a sailor. The relevant case can be found in the Old Baily On-line records.

Robert Paul, the Buck's Row witness, had no criminal record that I could find.

We've discussed the tailor RJ, it's a different 'Robt' Paul

[rjpalmer]

"It on first glance appears that on the 1st May 1871 we see a fifteen years old Robert Paul charged and found guilty at Middlesex Assizes, Whitechapel of 'False Pretences"

Is there a link to this, please?

Yes, this was a red herring. This Robert Paul wasn't fifteen, he was 27 and had come to London from Glasgow. His occupation was transcribed as 'tailor,' but he was actually a sailor. The relevant case can be found in the Old Baily On-line records.

Robert Paul, the Buck's Row witness, had no criminal record that I could find.

[Geddy2112]

"It on first glance appears that on the 1st May 1871 we see a fifteen years old Robert Paul charged and found guilty at Middlesex Assizes, Whitechapel of 'False Pretences"

Is there a link to this, please?

Can of worms there I'm afraid. The Robert Paul criminal record was researched by someone whom I was part writing an article with for the latest Ripperologist. It got pulled. I was unhappy my name was removed however my contribution was still in the article. I personally did not do the research on the criminal record but I did write other aspects of the article. So yes I have photos of the police record, his name is not spelled as Robert but abbreviated so that might help. I'm not sure it's good 'form' to share the photos even though they are public record. The researcher claims their research is copyrighted and threatened me with that. I suggest it's not.

So yes it appears he did have a criminal record and maybe that's the reason for his anti-police stance in the Remarkable Statement. Sorry even though I really wish to share the photos I'm not sure if it's the correct thing to do or not, like I said they are public record and on Ancestry.

[Hair Bear]

"It on first glance appears that on the 1st May 1871 we see a fifteen years old Robert Paul charged and found guilty at Middlesex Assizes, Whitechapel of 'False Pretences"

Is there a link to this, please?