Plagiarism in The Evil Within - Trevor Marriott (moved discussion)

[Ally]

There ya go Phil:

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=7555

[Phil H]

Just out of curiosity Phil (and going off-topic), what would your opinion be on a private board, visible and accessible only to serious researchers where ideas could be shared out of the public view, debated and expanded upon until all parties were satisfied and then those threads locked and published?

This thread seems to have moved on to other matters.

I'd be happy to discuss your proposal - maybe you should open a specific thread and others could participate. I'm not a researcher and something of a dilettante (some might say), so I might not get invited into such a "private board"!!! But I think there could be other options.

Phil

[Ally]

No. You are confusing plagiarism with copyright. Plagiarism is an attempt to pass off the work as your own (which he did) but we are talking about copyright law and that is different. First there doesn't need to be an attempt to pass the work off as your own. I can publish a book written by someone else and actually put the author's name on there as the writer, but if all the money goes in my pocket and not his, and I don't have his permission to publish his work, I have still stolen from him. I have broken the law.

Mentioning the author is not enough. In the above example, that is a case where I even SAY it's written by the author and I have still broken the law. Trevor just said hey guys thanks for all your help and didn't say that Chapter 2 was written by Paul Kidd, Chapter 3 was written by So and So. That was plagiarism. So he is guilty of both plagiarism and copyright violations, the latter being where the law is broken.

[lynn cates]

Fair Use

Hello Ally. Thanks.

If that's correct, then, of course, that is a different matter. But my understanding is that, to count as a breach of copyright law, one must pass the original work off as one's own--without a mention of the original author.

And I agree that this does not fall under "Fair Use." Much of that doctrine applies to professors teaching in a class room and comedians doing parody.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

methodology

Hello Mike. Thanks.

You would agree, then, that sloppy/lazy research ought to be corrected? Then we are in league.

You may also agree about proper, as opposed to improper, methodology being utilised in that correction? If so, again, we are one.

Cheers.
LC

[Ally]

Actually he has broken laws. Copyright laws. Copying entire essays from other people, putting them in a book you sell for money violates fair use, violates non-commercial, violates, well everything related to copyright law.

Laws have actually been broken.

[lynn cates]

law, etc.

Hello Ally. Thanks.

I think you are wise to distinguish ethics from law. They are two quite different normative disciplines.

Legally, so far as I can tell (given the codes to which I have access), no one has broken any laws.

Morally/ethically, I struggle hard NOT to see laziness on one hand and vindictiveness on the other. And since I am prone to both . . .

Cheers.
LC

[mklhawley]

Hello Mike. Thanks.

"There's just not an 'on the other hand'."

Are you seriously suggesting that an instructor should violate norms and FERPA rules by publicly browbeating students who improperly footnote?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

Not at all. I just get the feeling this argument is having a 'red herring' effect on the fact that Trevor did a no-no.

Sincerely,

Mike

[lynn cates]

Biden his time.

Hello Chris. Yes, indeed.

I think the current American Vice President once withdrew from seeking office on that account.

Cheers.
LC

[Ally]

Hello Ally. Thanks.

Must confess ignorance to all those. I find little relish in public scandals--there but for the grace of God goes Jeremy Taylor.

But to describe my thinking about scandals in general, I ask you to recall "Citizen Kane." Just before election day, Charles Foster Kane was found in "a love triangle" with Susan Alexander. (Hope that's right--working with an old chap's memory.) At any rate, was he wrong to be seeing her? Certainly. He was a married man and with a child.

So Geddes (sp?) was interested in promoting marriage and family values? Well, I certainly hope so. That would be a noble sentiment indeed.

Cheers.
LC

It would depend on the context. In general who someone sleeps with is, in my opinion, entirely their business. Unless they are promoting public policy to the contrary. For instance a man who had his mistress have an abortion while he claims to be pro-life. A man who is found to be having sex with another man while proclaiming gays are evil. Relevancy is key.

If this were a piece talking about what a horndog Trevor is and how he cheated on his wife (I have no idea if he is or was ever married so I am simply using the example provided by Lynn of an affair) that frankly would be entirely improper and I would rightly say Mark had no business running it or Ripperologist publishing it. That's between him and his imaginary wife. But this is not about some bit of private integrity. It's about the integrity of his work. Therefore, it has journalistic relevance.

I have actually sat down and thought about the possible consequences to Trevor. I have looked at the possible loss of income, imagined the speaking engagements drying up and based on a purely personal strand of mercy that I have not yet stomped out of my almost entirely charred and blackened soul, have felt a slight twinge of sympathy for him. But then I think about the fact of how he has responded and I ruthlessly crushed that twinge down. If you look at my first post, I attempted to be measured (though I admit I generally fail miserably at measured). It was not until after I read his responses that I lost my cool.

He chose his path. And he doesn't seem to regret it at all, and rather than owning his mistakes, he has attempted to character assassinate Mark and everyone who has ever spoken to him, drudging up this cabal nonsense as if this imaginary cabal plagiarized his book for him. So he's not worth that twinge of sympathy and I am fool for having felt it, however briefly I did.

[lynn cates]

Raising Kane.

Hello Ally. Thanks.

Must confess ignorance to all those. I find little relish in public scandals--there but for the grace of God goes Jeremy Taylor.

But to describe my thinking about scandals in general, I ask you to recall "Citizen Kane." Just before election day, Charles Foster Kane was found in "a love triangle" with Susan Alexander. (Hope that's right--working with an old chap's memory.) At any rate, was he wrong to be seeing her? Certainly. He was a married man and with a child.

So Geddes (sp?) was interested in promoting marriage and family values? Well, I certainly hope so. That would be a noble sentiment indeed.

Cheers.
LC

[chrisjd]

Plagiarism has been a big issue until recently in Germany. Quite a few politicians and other high ranked people had their PhDs withdrawn and had to step down from office.

[Ally]

Hello Ally. Thanks.

You are also right that, in academia, plagiarism can be handled in an unforgiving manner--rightly so. But never--so far as I recall--in a trade journal.

In fairness, I have seen:

1. Book reviews which include lines like: "Professor X's book on "Ontological Anomalies in the Ionian Pre-Socratics" is largely a rehash of Professor Y's work--he brings little new to the table. One is better advised to buy Professor Y's book and not spend money on this latest offering."

and

2. Critical essays in which one's views were critiqued, analysed and otherwise taken to task--but always with a view to promoting knowledge of the subject, not just as an expose of the person.

Cheers.
LC

In a trade journal is your issue? What about exposure on national TV and in the international media? Have you heard of Jayson Blair? Stephen Ambrose was called to task in national newspapers. A rabbi whose name I can't remember has resigned after being accused of plagiarism in the national press just recently. Fareed Zakaria was vilified in print and television across the globe last year for accidentally plagiarizing a single paragraph in an article.

All of these scandals came out as a result of investigative journalism and a published piece like Mark's. And to a much wider audience and consequence.

And there was no one standing up going, oh the works they stole weren't really being used, so who cares. Poor dears and their public shaming. The fact that in this field, people are sympathizing with the person who committed the act and questioning the motives of the person who exposed it, says something really nasty about the field. It's a black eye.

[Ally]

You called?

The world needs to hear it. NEEDS to.

[lynn cates]

"It's all academic."

Hello Ally. Thanks.

"Yes but students don't receive monetary advances for the work they are putting out to be their own."

That's true enough. Of course, if they stick with it, they will receive a piece of paper allowing them--under certain circumstances--to enhance their incomes.

You are also right that, in academia, plagiarism can be handled in an unforgiving manner--rightly so. But never--so far as I recall--in a trade journal.

In fairness, I have seen:

1. Book reviews which include lines like: "Professor X's book on "Ontological Anomalies in the Ionian Pre-Socratics" is largely a rehash of Professor Y's work--he brings little new to the table. One is better advised to buy Professor Y's book and not spend money on this latest offering."

and

2. Critical essays in which one's views were critiqued, analysed and otherwise taken to task--but always with a view to promoting knowledge of the subject, not just as an expose of the person.

Cheers.
LC