Which Publishers Are Worth Approaching?

[Bridewell]

Many thanks for that, Trevor. I was quoted £350 for 100 copies perfect-bound a few weeks ago, but, of course there is no guarantee of quality. Thanks for the warning about Amazon, which several people (not Casebook) had steered me towards. I can't see how a first-time author could hope to sell at £10+ so that has to be a non-starter. I bought & read The 21st Century Investigation btw, so frustrating that the vital shipping records weren't retrievable. Can I ask what the word-count was, so that I have a rough idea of where I need to be & have you done a follow-up?

[Tom_Wescott]

350GBP for 100 books? Wow, that truly is a bad investment. If you noticed what Rob said, there's many options now that don't operate in such the antiquated way that you and Trevor describe. Very little out of pocket, because they print on demand, so if you sell 10 copies or 10,000 copies, they can't lose money. The great thing about specialist books like the Ripper, is that you're on almost even part with the likes of Beggs, Evans, etc., in that when I go to search Amazon for latest Ripper books, I'll see yours too, SO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A GOOD AUTHOR'S BLURB! And people have always and will always judge a book by its cover, so don't pull an Andrew Cook or Plimmer on us.

Even if you decide to go the self-publish route, do not do so without first having the book properly edited, grammatically and for fact-checking. I haven't published a book yet, but have published enough essays to equal a book, and I can promise you that no matter how many times you pour over your own material, you will never catch everything, but fresh eyes always do. Editors are your friend, unless as noted they push you to write your book differently than you would like to.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

Rob,

Thank you for sharing your experiences. I love reading that stuff. I'm surprised your book has sold 'under par', though I guess I don't know what 'par' the publisher had set. Is your book in stores? I haven't seen it at Barnes & Noble here in the states.

Trevor,

When it comes to marketing, I think we're all willing to listen to what you have to say. I for one will be getting an agent and going with a major publisher. Three book deal. For future projects that will be smaller scale, such as the book I would like to do on the London anarchists, and the definitive Berner Street tome, and my biography of Phil Carter, I think a lulu.com type of route sounds very appealing.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[robhouse]

Hi Tom,

My book has been in stores here in the US, in limited quantity. I don't see it as much anymore, but there are still a few copies here and there.

Rob

[Tom_Wescott]

I'm in Tulsa and our 'true crime' section isn't very big, and half of it is wasted on mob nonsense, and another 20% goes to Ann Rule. Funny thing is, when Ripper books do appear, they sell rather quickly, so I don't know why more aren't stocked.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mklhawley]

Another thought on the self-published print-on-demand approach is it might get you into a publishing house in the future. A publishing company had to let me go during the last economic downturn. They said my book was a 'niche book' and they decided to let go of all their niche books and focus on the biggest potential sellers. They recommended to me to self-publish, market with a website (plus other things), and then when it finally sells approach publishing companies. Success in the field is better than potential. I did this approach and have not regretted it.

I went with Aventine Press. It's cheap, but the quality of my book is great.

With my fiction manuscript, I've decided to go the book agent route because of the bigger potential market.

Just some additional thoughts.

Sincererly,

Mike

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Mike. What book are we talking about?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mklhawley]

Hi Mike. What book are we talking about?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the interest. It's from my other passion (http://www.buffalospree.com/Buffalo-...y-and-God-BFF/) of thirty five years, and the book is titled Searching for Truth with a Broken Flashlight . I'm actually amazed at how the ripper-bug has tempered this earlier passion. I should be working hard at marketing it and doing more speaking engagements, but no -I'm stuck on this 1888 thing. I even purchased a couple 1888 US coins (an indian head penny, seated liberty dime and quarter, and a Morgan silver dollar). I blame it all on you guys

Sincerely,
Mike

[HelenaWojtczak]

Is anyone still following or interested in this thread?

[Chris Scott]

I think we have to be aware that working within the Ripper field it is an area with demands which are all its own. The single word Ripper has a very odd effect on publishers and agents. On the one hand, newspaper and magazine publishers seem to still be of the opinion that any headline that can include the word Ripper will almost guarantee attention. Indeed, to such an extent that some "findings" or "revelations" will be mined for any possible connection to the case, however oblique, to allow the use of the word in the header.
However, when it comes to book publishers and agents most of them metaphorically run a mile when your offering shows a connection to the Ripper case. This is, in my opinion, for a number of reasons. First, many publishers seem to think, possibly rightly, that any book about the Whitechapel case will be by nature graphic and possibly even lurid or sensationalist. Also a number of books which at the time of their publication have attracted much publicity were subsequently either debunked or at the least the basis of their "research" seriously undermined.
I have to agree with Stewart completely in that getting into print by the traditional route has never been easy - nor, arguably, should it be - but in the present economic climate and the fluid technological state of the publishing market now, to follow the traditional route must be fiendishly difficult.
Of course the complication (some would say liberation) of the market now is the presence of self publishing. The perception of this has changed radically over the last few years. Until not so long ago self publishing was synonymous with so called vanity publishing, in which it was suggested the desire of the writer to see his or her work in print was just an ego trip and a last resort as no other route was open. The modern self publishing market is very different and some very worthwhile - indeed important - books have come to market via this route. However, this self publishing market is like any other and I would sound two notes of caution:-
1) Self publishing is not the ideal route for everyone and costs will be incurred and can be considerable especially for those on limited means. Like anything else in life, decide on a realistic budge and do not be tempted to exceed it.
2) There are many less than professional "publishers" out there - and some outright scams - so do your research carefully. There are writers' websites that review publishers and agents and expose fake and dubious companies. Use these - they are worth their weight in gold and could save you a LOT of money.
Of course most of these points applied back in the days of of traditional publishing - there have been iffy agents and rip off publishers probably forever. But if you yourself are paying for the privilege of seeing your work in print, and that cost can soon and easily run into thousands of pounds, be very careful who you go with.
Lastly I would say two things:-
1) Be very sure before you even start WHY you want to see your work in print. It is naturally very hard for authors to be dispassionate about their work on which they may have slaved for months or even years. But you MUST be clear headed in trying to assess what the appeal of your work is going to be and who your audience is.
2) Spend as much time as you can researching the market and the company you are going to give your hard earned money to. Use the internet and take all the advice you can get.
And good luck:-)
Chris Scott

[HelenaWojtczak]

The OP might approach McFarland. After all, they published R. Michael Gordon.

To reply to Chris: as a self-publisher I agree more or less with everything you have said here, especially the warning not to risk too much money when self-publishing a book unless your returns are absolutely guaranteed.

It's raised a couple of issues that I find interesting.

Until not so long ago self publishing was synonymous with so called vanity publishing, in which it was suggested the desire of the writer to see his or her work in print was just an ego trip

Now, this I find really interesting: why people used to suggest that self publishing was an ego trip, but getting published by someone else wasn't an ego trip. That makes no logical sense to me. It could be argued that securing a publisher is more of an ego trip because the author has the kudos of having persuaded someone else to pay for his/her book to be published.

I'm not sure that it's always better to be published than to self publish. In 2005 I cancelled my contract with Cassell in favour of self publishing my book Railwaywomen for two reasons: editorial and financial.

Firstly Cassell set a maximum length of 192 pages, which isn't much to tell the story of an entire workforce over 170 years, especially when images had to be included. I was also told I could have only 20 images (because of the cost) when over 100 never-before-published photos were available. I would also be overruled by an editor, have the cover design taken out of my hands etc. I found this level of control and restriction over my work unbearable. Left to my own devices, the book went to print in hardback with 384 pages and 125 images.

Secondly, Cassell offered me no advance and just 7.5% of net profits. By self publishing I kept 100% of the profits - and the book financed a conservatory on my house. We do not know how many more copies of the book would have been sold had I enjoyed the kudos and support of being published by Cassell, but let's face it, it would have had to be over thirteen times as many copies for me to have made the same income. I can't believe that such a specialised, minority-interest book would have sold over 26,000 copies with Cassell.

In 2007 the book won the Writers' News Self Published Book of the Year award and the Best Self Published Non Fiction Book, the prizes being £1,000 and £250, along with plenty of welcome publicity, a party and a Silver Cup. Obviously, the book would not have been eliglible for these awards had Cassell published it. Because it was self published people offered to host book launches (I had three) and signings.

Finally, the choice of when/whether to let the book go out of print would have remained with Cassell, whereas this way it is up to me. I've just sold out the 2,000 hardback print run and am soon to reprint in paperback. Would Cassell be reprinting it?

The internet has revolutionised self publishing, in that all my books are on Amazon (and all other online bookshops) the same as any others and don't appear self published.

I hope this information helps anyone weighing up self publishing vs being published.

any headline that can include the word Ripper will almost guarantee attention. Indeed, to such an extent that some "findings" or "revelations" will be mined for any possible connection to the case, however oblique, to allow the use of the word in the header.

Hmmm... am I guilty as charged, Chris? ;-)

Regards

Helena

[Chris Scott]

Hi Helena
Certainly "not guility" of the point I was making:-)
Chapman has been a suspect since the time of his arrest and death and a major book about him is seriously overdue
Chris

[HelenaWojtczak]

Hi Helena
Certainly "not guility" of the point I was making:-)
Chapman has been a suspect since the time of his arrest and death and a major book about him is seriously overdue
Chris

I'm relieved to read this. I am always guilty of striving to be painfully honest. What do you think of Paul Begg's title for my book? I am still in two minds but I can't think of anything better?

[Chris Scott]

The point about the old style "vanity publishing" was that it was thought then that people would only resort to it after all other avenues had been exhausted. The stereotypical vanity author would be, for example, someone who wrote appalling poetry but was convinced they were a genius and paid exorbitantly for a slim volume of their works. This was, of course, in the days long before self publishing as we know it now, long before e-books and Kindle and other modern media. Then traditional publishers and agents held a monopoly on the routes to publication and I personally think that self publishing should be valued if only for breaking that stranglehold and opening up the market.
The same is happening now with regard to the status of e-books - until comparatively recently these were seen as a poor relations or an inferior product to "proper" books. But with the advent of Kindle and other e-readers the status and market share of electronic books has changed out of all recognition. And if an author is happy to go the Kindle route, of course now publication can be achieved at no cost via Amazon's own service of KDP (Kindle Direct Publishing)

https://kdp.amazon.com/self-publishing/signin

Again, do your homework and decide which is the best route for you and your work

[Chris Scott]

I'm relieved to read this. I am always guilty of striving to be painfully honest. What do you think of Paul Begg's title for my book? I am still in two minds but I can't think of anything better?

I like the title you use on the Hastings Press site which uses the alleged Abberline quote
Chris