The Real Mary Kelly

[Sally]

Yes, either man is possible, I think.

The book states that Ellen McLeod owned 53 Tonbridge Street, cited in the divorce papers; and which does appear to have been a brothel at the time - and possibly for some time beforehand. No evidence for her ownership is provided in the book - obviously if it could be demonstrated that she did own the property it would be an important piece of evidence. Perhaps more will be revealed in the forthcoming podcast [living in hope...]

[Robert]

Sally I think in the Hennessey clipping, which I think you found, Hennessey says that his landlord lives at Watford - which rules out the London family. In fact as far as I can see there were hardly any Mac/McLeods there at all.

I don't know if it's possible to find the house owner. Didn't Fiona Rule do this for Dorset St?

[Sally]

A Charlotte Warren is listed on the electoral rolls for 53 Tonbridge Street in 1889; in the same year that Hennessey got into trouble for keeping the 'disorderly house' at that address.

[Robert]

I'm not sure where she pops up from.

In 1891, the place seems quiet again. There's a painter living there.

[Robert]

I'm just wondering whether Edward Warren, as a council rates collector, would have been able to give Craig the names of the owners of the various properties, either in Warren's own area or elsewhere. I'm not sure whether the landlords would have paid the rates, or whether the occupants would. I'm also not sure if Warren was actually doing this job in the mid-1880s. He certainly was in 1891, but in 1881 he seems to have been some kind of secretary.

[David Orsam]

My problem with the theory of Craig as the murderer is the entry in the court file that Thomas Webster filed a Notice of Acting as Craig's solicitor on 29 March 1889. WWD tries to explain this away as some sort of cunning deflection tactic on Craig's part in case anyone was "sniffing around" but to me it makes no sense that he would wait almost four months to do this and who would be "sniffing around" his divorce file anyway? He says it would have cost Webster nothing but there must have been some small charge by the solicitor for filing the Notice of Acting. WWD also says that the fact that there are no further entries on the court file after 29 March "indicate that neither he nor his lawyer did anything to actively trace Elizabeth". This is not true at all because such inquiries or activities would never have been entered onto the court file notes. Moreover, if WWD is right that MJK was EWD then there could never have been any further activity on the court file because EWD was dead. After having amended the petition on 20 August 1888 the next thing that Craig had to do was serve it on both his wife and McBain. But if he couldn't find his wife, because she was dead, then the proceedings could not have continued, which would explain why all activity on the court file came an end.

[David Orsam]

l would also take issue with the theory that Craig amended his petition in August 1888 as a result of an agreement with Mrs McLeod (or MacLeod) whereby she told him the whereabouts of his wife in return for her name not being made public. The author notes that paragraph 5 of the petition, which refers to Mrs McLeod, was struck out but fails to mention that paragraph 6, which was not struck out, also mentions Mrs McLeod.

It seems to me more likely that the reason for the strike out was that Craig could not support the allegation in paragraph 5 that his wife committed adultery with "various unknown men" in Mrs McLeod's property, or that it was too vague to be continued with. Once that was gone, the only remaining adultery allegation was in respect of McBain. I also note that, in addition to the deletion of paragraph 5, Craig was given permission to make "certain other additions and alterations" suggesting he was engaged in a tidying up exercise of his pleading. The requested changes were also supported by a sworn affidavit which would have given his reasons for them, making it very unlikely in my view that he cut some sort of deal with Mrs McLeod.

[Sleuth1888]

I'll be buying this book soon. Will be an interesting read.

A jealous and revengeful husband is an interesting take on the case.

[Paddy]

Henry/Harry McBain 1891

Henry was living in a Lodging house of 28 men at 47 Campbell Road Islington in 1891....

Pat.....

[Azarna]

Thrilled to bits to be one of the lucky winners of the competition from the Ripperologist Magazine and the Rippercast podcast. Thank you to all involved.

Half way through the book already.

The initial connections between Elizabeth and Mary Jane were very interesting (not yet looked at the notes and references though).

Not so sure about the theory as to who the killer is, as it all seems based on a rather moviesque plot rather than any actual facts.

However, I will continue to the end as I am rather enjoying it, even if I am not yet convinced as to its accuracy. I am hoping that the notes etc will contain references that strengthen the case.

[Fantomas]

I've glanced at a couple of notes in books over the years that the Marchioness of Londonderry and subsequent "Ladies of Londonderry" held yearly "Bohemian Grove" style parties called "the Ark club". The lady of the house would play the role of Circe and the guests would wear animal masks. Little is known beyond that but in modern Derry rumours persisted that this continued well into the 20th Century - Churchill and subsequently Lord Mountbatten attended - and was about as debauched as one might conceive. This article says the club was instigated in 1915 though local sources argue it is older:

http://www.librariesni.org.uk/News/Pages/The-Amazing-Story-of-the-Ark-Club-–-An-Exhibition.aspx

So, brain fart theory time, riffing on the Royal Cobspiracy; Elizabeth/Mary is privy to the Ark club antics and on leaving the Marchioness's employ was pursued to buy/preserve her silence. She changes her name to MJK and hides among the Whitechapel denizens. An assassin is despatched to kill her and works his way through four prostitutes before alighting on MJK/Elizabeth. His frustrations explode in the extreme disfiguration and disembowelling MJK receives. Just riffing...

[packers stem]

I've glanced at a couple of notes in books over the years that the Marchioness of Londonderry and subsequent "Ladies of Londonderry" held yearly "Bohemian Grove" style parties called "the Ark club". The lady of the house would play the role of Circe and the guests would wear animal masks. Little is known beyond that but in modern Derry rumours persisted that this continued well into the 20th Century - Churchill and subsequently Lord Mountbatten attended - and was about as debauched as one might conceive. This article says the club was instigated in 1915 though local sources argue it is older:

http://www.librariesni.org.uk/News/Pages/The-Amazing-Story-of-the-Ark-Club-–-An-Exhibition.aspx

So, brain fart theory time, riffing on the Royal Cobspiracy; Elizabeth/Mary is privy to the Ark club antics and on leaving the Marchioness's employ was pursued to buy/preserve her silence. She changes her name to MJK and hides among the Whitechapel denizens. An assassin is despatched to kill her and works his way through four prostitutes before alighting on MJK/Elizabeth. His frustrations explode in the extreme disfiguration and disembowelling MJK receives. Just riffing...

Interesting Fantomas
I do suspect we have found our Mary Kelly and her links to fitzrovia are interesting .Maybe things are beginning to fall into place

[curious4]

I've glanced at a couple of notes in books over the years that the Marchioness of Londonderry and subsequent "Ladies of Londonderry" held yearly "Bohemian Grove" style parties called "the Ark club". The lady of the house would play the role of Circe and the guests would wear animal masks. Little is known beyond that but in modern Derry rumours persisted that this continued well into the 20th Century - Churchill and subsequently Lord Mountbatten attended - and was about as debauched as one might conceive. This article says the club was instigated in 1915 though local sources argue it is older:

http://www.librariesni.org.uk/News/Pages/The-Amazing-Story-of-the-Ark-Club-–-An-Exhibition.aspx

So, brain fart theory time, riffing on the Royal Cobspiracy; Elizabeth/Mary is privy to the Ark club antics and on leaving the Marchioness's employ was pursued to buy/preserve her silence. She changes her name to MJK and hides among the Whitechapel denizens. An assassin is despatched to kill her and works his way through four prostitutes before alighting on MJK/Elizabeth. His frustrations explode in the extreme disfiguration and disembowelling MJK receives. Just riffing...

Personal prejudice, perhaps, but I can't see Lloyd George joining in anything like this - or even Churchill. He and Clemmie were a very devoted couple by all accounts. I think the source may be a little dubious.

Best wishes
C4

[Stephen Lee]

Bought this on Kindle, around a third of the way through and find the author is making far to many assumptions on his suspect. I would have been happy if it was a book about him tracing his supposed ancestor MJK/Elizabeth Davies. It does seem as if he has done his research, the notes are detailed. But can't help feeling he's jumping ahead of himself.

I also picked up William Beadles book Jack The Ripper Unmasked very cheaply on Kindle. Worth a read if anyone hasn't read it.

[John Wheat]

I also picked up William Beadles book Jack The Ripper Unmasked very cheaply on Kindle. Worth a read if anyone hasn't read it.

To Stephen Lee

I would say William Beadles book is definitely worth a read.

Cheers John