Jack the Ripper-The Secret Police Files

[Fisherman]

Thanks Abby. Happy New year to you! I felt compelled to join in as there seemed to be a lot of repetition of old incorrect notions about Elizabeth Jackson's case that I thought had finally been set to rest or ironed out on other threads recently but it seems not.

Some cloth is very hard to flatten even by ironing, Debra...

[Debra A]

I at least didn't realise it at first, having misread Hebbert's description (the dangers of reading these things on my phone), but I don't think I argued a certain stance



I think the "parcel" was made in order for the pieces to sink when thrown in the river. It obviously did not work very well.

So I don't think it was strictly necessary to aid dismemberment, but it might have been thought a convenient way of disposing of the uterus.

Thanks Kattrup, It wasn't you I had in mind, to be honest, your not knowing Elizabeth's uterus was removed from her body slipped under my radar, probably because you weren't arguing any particular stance over it!

I agree with you about the parcelling to some extent-It looks like the uterus may have been parcelled up separately with the flaps of abdominal flesh because those things specifically needed to be hidden, pointing towards the obvious disposal after an abortion gone wrong but yet Dr. Bond and Dr Hebbert concluded that no abortion had occurred at the time of Elizabeth's death and she died as a pregnant woman, the foetus removed after her death. The parcelling of the uterus is slightly more difficult to understand in that case as why would an abortionist draw attention to something he didn't achieve? I can't get over that obstacle.

[Darryl Kenyon]

If Jack did have a lot of medical knowledge/skill , why remove the kidneys from the front ? if it is a particular hard thing to do. I am no medical man but i have read that a simple kidney removal is normally done from the side. If jack was a medical man wouldn't he know this ? And remove the organ the easiest and quickest way .

[Debra A]

Some cloth is very hard to flatten even by ironing, Debra...

A steam roller would be handy sometimes!

[Jon Guy]

But overall, the concept of serial killers was an alien one to the public, I think we can agree on that?

Not in the East End, Christer.
Some newspapers in 1888 were drawing comparisons to the Ratcliff Highway murders.

[Pierre]

Not in the East End, Christer.
Some newspapers in 1888 were drawing comparisons to the Ratcliff Highway murders.

The concept "serial killer" is from our own time.

Regards, Pierre

[Fisherman]

Not in the East End, Christer.
Some newspapers in 1888 were drawing comparisons to the Ratcliff Highway murders.

Point taken. And we will arrive at Gilles de Rais sooner or later. The point I am trying to make is that the victorian society was nowhere near as accustomed to serialists as we are. It was something very much out of the ordinary.

[Fisherman]

If Jack did have a lot of medical knowledge/skill , why remove the kidneys from the front ? if it is a particular hard thing to do. I am no medical man but i have read that a simple kidney removal is normally done from the side. If jack was a medical man wouldn't he know this ? And remove the organ the easiest and quickest way .

Reasonably, yes. The again, if he wanted to press the point that he was skilled enough to know where the kidneys rested under a membrane, then that could be seen as some sort of testimony of insights and knowledge- and insights and knowledge rests mainly with the medical profession in this case.
However, my own take remains that the killer had no medical experience, no surgical insights and no experience of cutting into flesh other than perhaps animalic ditto. He was versed in anatomy, and he may genuinely have believed that kidneys are normally extracted via the front.

[Fisherman]

A steam roller would be handy sometimes!

Doesn´t work either - I know, I´ve let off more steam than most posters out here...

[Harry D]

If Ripper and Thames Torso were one and the same, why were the Ripper killings all confined to such a small geographical area in contrast to the other series?

[DJA]

The concept "serial killer" is from our own time.

Regards, Pierre

Well 1930. Ernst Gennat.

[Jon Guy]

The concept "serial killer" is from our own time.

I have evidence to the contrary.

[Jon Guy]

Well 1930. Ernst Gennat.

Actually, the term was used by an American publication in the mid to late 1800s.

[DJA]

The Bender family?

[Fisherman]

If Ripper and Thames Torso were one and the same, why were the Ripper killings all confined to such a small geographical area in contrast to the other series?

The Torso victims were in all probability killed in a very much smaller area - the same bolthole.