Deconstructing Jack by Simon Wood

[David Orsam]

David

I was definately expecting conspirators to be named and who did what to whom and when and not just to be told that I was a stereotypical Ripperologist irrevocably wedded to the 'obviously' incorrect notion that there was a homicidal maniac at work in Whitechapel in 1888. I also found it more than a little strange that someone could try to hint that the worlds most obvious suicide was a murder! Or that someone doing a bit of am-dram might want Edward Stanley as his next role or that he'd fancy a time in a flea-bitten dosshouse with the 'hardly Keira Knightly' Annie Chapman. Maybe we expect too much?

I don't think you expected too much.

Anyway I'm just about to start reading a book on The Islington Murder. I hope that this Barrat bloke does his research

You expect too much!!!

[David Orsam]

Forget the book on 80's pop music David, you've hit on a winner there!

I might try and work it into the book on 80s pop music. Double the potential readership. It can't fail!

[Robert]

David since you are writing a book on 80s pop music, I am posting an example. Hope it helps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQcFjy0zzQE

[Simon Wood]

[John G]

Hello Robert,

You are right. Rather than unique I probably should have said quite rare or something to that affect. Your point is well made.

I did get a laugh with your reference to some Autumn conference in Whitechapel in 1888.

c.d.

Hi c.d.,

What are your observations on Ellen Bury, Alice Mackenzie and Mary Ann Austin?

[Herlock Sholmes]

... he was tugging away at my right trouser leg at the time - a pity because my left trouser leg had some bells sewn into the seam and would have made a nice jingly sound.

Are you a secret Morris Dancer David?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Herlock,

Didn't you know that the Morris Dancers are a dangerous spin-off from the Number Gangs?

Regards,

Simon

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock,

Didn't you know that the Morris Dancers are a dangerous spin-off from the Number Gangs?

Regards,

Simon

Hi Simon,

I've always thought that there was something sinister about them. Hankerchiefs making signals and suspiciously bushy beards! Never trust them.

[David Orsam]

Are you a secret Morris Dancer David?

No, I think you'll find they have bells on both legs Herlock.

You know, I distinctly recall telling my secret squirrel friend to pull my other leg because it had bells on but he just tapped his nose and told me that if he did that he would have to kill me.

He was a strange fellow.

[Herlock Sholmes]

No, I think you'll find they have bells on both legs Herlock.

You know, I distinctly recall telling my secret squirrel friend to pull my other leg because it had bells on but he just tapped his nose and told me that if he did that he would have to kill me.

He was a strange fellow.

Squirrels usually are in my experience.

[David Orsam]

Squirrels usually are in my experience.

Yeah, nuts usually.

[Robert St Devil]

I did get a laugh with your reference to some Autumn conference in Whitechapel in 1888.

c.d.

hello again c.d..
i had to include that bit in my response bc your second to last sentence in post #396 is intimidating.

prior to jack the ripper, london seems to be characterized by scandal rather than murder-mystery. ive skimmed bna from the decades prior, and most stabbings are reported as familiar occurences - a nephew got drunk and stabbed an uncle, a sister stabbed her sister, husband stabs a wife,... theres an incident with the high rippers in the early 80s were they assaulted a shop clerk; however, the only murder-mystery that reeks of Jack the Ripper (that ive read) is the one that happens on Coram street and (possibly) Hannah Rosser.

To attribute this random flash of social anarchy, in a city with no real and immediate precedence for the social murder and within a tight time span of a year or two, to two or more perpetrators who murdered without collusion is... well,... difficult! worse yet is the theory that a sexual disease enraged his homicidal tendencies and commenced his mysterious killing spree; im no doctor but ill share my common doubt that gonnorhea enables a man with stealth powers. still, we,re left to consider that two men suffered the affliction at the same time and acted independently. to requote myself... "intimidating".

* in all fairness, i am uncomfortably somewhere between the Canonical Five and the Times' Ten.

[Michael W Richards]

I'm sure that our good friend Michael Richards will soon show up to argue that cities all contain evil men who are quite capable of doing what was done in Whitechapel thus arguing for multiple killers. And while that argument might be true in theory it fails to take into account the unique nature of the Ripper murders. Yes, evil men do commit crimes but we are not talking about purse snatchers or robbers or even ordinary murderers. We are talking about someone who cuts the throats of their victims and takes out their internal organs. If every evil man were capable of such a thing then the Ripper murders would be commonplace and this website would not exist. It also relies on the assumption that evil men (plural) capable of committing such an act all happened to somehow show up in Whitechapel in the Autumn of 1888. I find that a hard argument to accept.

c.d.

I would think that by now cd that you would have accepted the fact that there were many violent men, some that are known to us today, that lived within or just outside the affected area during the period in question. And that actions can be taken based upon different motivations, but still appear oddly alike.

I agree these murders were particularly cruel, but I object to the idea that only patently cruel men performed them. Using the most obvious example, Liz Stride, there is only evidence of murder there. No excessive cruelty, no "ripping", and no suggestion of severe mental issues at all. Just a cut across her throat, and left to bleed out. Liz is the one Canonical who likely remained conscious during that fatal cut, unless the twisted scarf was used longer than just to catch her and hold her.

Lets say for arguments sake that she is excused from the proceedings. That leaves us with what....9 or 10 other unsolved murders of local women, including that of Alice Mackenzie,... physical damage considered, a very close facsimile of Polly. If your Jack fellow didn't kill Alice....because he was institutionalized, he drowned, he left the country, he just stopped killing,...whichever flavor you prefer, then someone else killed her very much in the fashion of some attributed Ripper victims. There. That's your proof my theory isnt just speculation.

[Harry D]

Lets say for arguments sake that she is excused from the proceedings. That leaves us with what....9 or 10 other unsolved murders of local women, including that of Alice Mackenzie,... physical damage considered, a very close facsimile of Polly. If your Jack fellow didn't kill Alice....because he was institutionalized, he drowned, he left the country, he just stopped killing,...whichever flavor you prefer, then someone else killed her very much in the fashion of some attributed Ripper victims. There. That's your proof my theory isnt just speculation.

If Alice McKenzie had been eviscerated and her organs excised, you might have a point. Instead, her murder was tamer than Nichols', and there's the little matter of the eight month time gap, followed by no further Ripper-esque murders afterwards. It's the closest thing we have to a potential copycat for those reasons.

Your assertion that the canonical five were murdered by four separate individuals is nonsense.

[Michael W Richards]

If Alice McKenzie had been eviscerated and her organs excised, you might have a point. Instead, her murder was tamer than Nichols', and there's the little matter of the eight month time gap, followed by no further Ripper-esque murders afterwards. It's the closest thing we have to a potential copycat for those reasons.

Your assertion that the canonical five were murdered by four separate individuals is nonsense.

Ive never claimed belief that there were 4 different murderers in the C5 Harry, you must have me confused with someone else. Ive claimed that I believe that there was more than one single mad killer, and that unknown motives do not equate to absent motives. Also that a single cut doesn't belong with the list of mutilated women.

As to Alices murder, I don't think the evidence agrees with you. They essentially went back on high alert again, so it would seem that they thought that not only was the person or people still at large..., they also suspected he was back to killing again.

I also believe that Ive been misrepresented when posters suggest I am imagining Copy Cat killings here. Ive been fairly clear when Ive stated that making something appear to be other than it is isn't emulation, its mimicking. Copy Cat killings are emulations. One or more of the Canonicals might have been mutilated to appear a certain way, not because the killer felt the need to do so.