The Five

[Ms Diddles]

I had really high hopes for this book when I read about it prior to release.

Whilst not entirely original, I liked the idea of a feminist slant on the case, putting the victims centre stage and cutting Jack out of the picture completely.

HR's depiction of Ripperology and Ripperologists was honestly not a picture that I recognised.

Before taking the plunge and signing up to become a member of this site, I spent nearly a year scrolling through the old threads, reading the posts and getting a feel for the people writing them.

I was impressed at the sympathy and respect shown towards the victims, and the blanket condemnation of the killer.

I'm a feminist. Had I felt that people on here glorified the killer, or took a salacious, prurient interest in the killings, I would never have signed up.

I'd have tutted in disgust and logged off, never to return.

I have no less sympathy for the women because they were prostitutes.

Just like previous posters, I probably have more, because of the sh*tty lives they were forced to live, and the sh*tty things which they had to do to survive.

To re-frame them as entirely different people is just insulting and reeks of agenda.

There was a really good book in there somewhere, but the writers agenda got in the way and suffocated the life out of it!

[Herlock Sholmes]

I had really high hopes for this book when I read about it prior to release.

Whilst not entirely original, I liked the idea of a feminist slant on the case, putting the victims centre stage and cutting Jack out of the picture completely.

HR's depiction of Ripperology and Ripperologists was honestly not a picture that I recognised.

Before taking the plunge and signing up to become a member of this site, I spent nearly a year scrolling through the old threads, reading the posts and getting a feel for the people writing them.

I was impressed at the sympathy and respect shown towards the victims, and the blanket condemnation of the killer.

I'm a feminist. Had I felt that people on here glorified the killer, or took a salacious, prurient interest in the killings, I would never have signed up.

I'd have tutted in disgust and logged off, never to return.

I have no less sympathy for the women because they were prostitutes.

Just like previous posters, I probably have more, because of the sh*tty lives they were forced to live, and the sh*tty things which they had to do to survive.

To re-frame them as entirely different people is just insulting and reeks of agenda.

There was a really good book in there somewhere, but the writers agenda got in the way and suffocated the life out of it!

It’s a pity she didn’t try to take the opinions of the many women that are interested in the case unless she’s implying that they are all too meek to speak out against the prevalence of sexism?
Its ironic that she highlights the fact that prostitutes were tarred as lacking in morals (which actually occurred) but she thinks it’s ok to tar ripperologists. Sadly she appears to be Teflon so if you decided to write a book on the subject Ms D you’ve been given a blueprint for success. Somehow I don’t think that you’d use it though.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Early next year, I believe Michael.

I’ll be glad when they finally let Paul, Debs and Sean out of the Mango Books basement.

Cheers Gary.

Not an easy task but I’m sure it will be worth waiting for. I hope that they’ll include the fact that Pierre has solved the case?

[caz]

It’s a pity she didn’t try to take the opinions of the many women that are interested in the case unless she’s implying that they are all too meek to speak out against the prevalence of sexism?
Its ironic that she highlights the fact that prostitutes were tarred as lacking in morals (which actually occurred) but she thinks it’s ok to tar ripperologists. Sadly she appears to be Teflon so if you decided to write a book on the subject Ms D you’ve been given a blueprint for success. Somehow I don’t think that you’d use it though.

Probably a coincidence, Herlock, but the book was originally going to be called something really crass, like 'Jack the Ripper's Women', and I posted elsewhere that this just highlighted their status as victims, reducing them to mere possessions of the infamous murderer - pretty much what HR was accusing ripperologists of doing. The title was changed shortly afterwards, so I wondered if my post had anything to do with it. I suspect if her publisher had gone with the original title, she'd have attracted fewer 'right on' fans to her cause. I wouldn't like to think I did her a favour.

Love,

Caz
X

[Michael W Richards]

I think that selecting these Five woman and assuming their lives had the same patterns and habits is a false premise in the first place. Only Polly, Annie and Kate had no known ability to pay for a bed other than by "earning" it that same night. Mary was already in arrears to the tune of 2 weeks, McCarthy himself said delinquent rent was collected "as best as one could". And Liz was paid for cleaning, 2d more than her doss would be, but apparently she didnt intend to sleep there that night anyway.

[Ms Diddles]

Probably a coincidence, Herlock, but the book was originally going to be called something really crass, like 'Jack the Ripper's Women', and I posted elsewhere that this just highlighted their status as victims, reducing them to mere possessions of the infamous murderer - pretty much what HR was accusing ripperologists of doing. The title was changed shortly afterwards, so I wondered if my post had anything to do with it. I suspect if her publisher had gone with the original title, she'd have attracted fewer 'right on' fans to her cause. I wouldn't like to think I did her a favour.

Love,

Caz
X

That's interesting.

I wasn't aware of this.

A book with a feminist agenda entitled "Jack the Ripper's Women" would have been a total own goal!

I really hate it when women criticise other women for being inadequate or half arsed feminists. It's hypocritical and counter productive, but that said, I can't help but question the credentials and authenticity of a feminist author who would contemplate such a title.....

[MrBarnett]

This was the original cover design which, as Caz says, was miraculously ditched after a furore erupted on JTRForums.

Even so, the book that isn’t about Jack the Ripper still had JACK THE RIPPER prominently displayed on its cover.

[Herlock Sholmes]

This was the original cover design which, as Caz says, was miraculously ditched after a furore erupted on JTRForums.

Even so, the book that isn’t about Jack the Ripper still had JACK THE RIPPER prominently displayed on its cover.

Didn’t this version actually go on sale Gary? I thought I’d seen it in Waterstone’s....

”or did I dream it” (said in a high-pitched, pretend woman’s voice of course)

[Enigma]

This was the original cover design which, as Caz says, was miraculously ditched after a furore erupted on JTRForums.

Even so, the book that isn’t about Jack the Ripper still had JACK THE RIPPER prominently displayed on its cover.

Of course the book cover had to mention JtR as a tag to make it saleable.

[MrBarnett]

Didn’t this version actually go on sale Gary? I thought I’d seen it in Waterstone’s....

”or did I dream it” (said in a high-pitched, pretend woman’s voice of course)

I don’t think so, Mike. The UK cover was changed completely and the ‘JTR’s women’ blurb was changed on the US one - as far as I know.

[MrBarnett]

Of course the book cover had to mention JtR as a tag to make it saleable.

As if the women’s lives were only marketable because of how they died, or rather who killed them. That’s the fundamental hypocrisy of the book - it’s a Ripper book largely based on research carried out by Ripperologists, but you wouldn’t think so from how it was marketed.

[Losmandris]

She also focuses on the canonical five (i.e. all those most linked to same hand), not bothering with the other at victims murdered in the period. So how ever much she tries she cant get away from JtR. A little hypocritical me thinks!

Tristan

[caz]

I don't think she was trying, Tristan, or she'd have called it: The Lives of Several Murdered Women in Late Victorian London, and sold about ten copies - all to Ripperologists.

Love,

Caz
X

[rjpalmer]

Everything is relative.

Compared to Bruce Robinson's book, Rubenhold practically gushes over the intelligence and insights of 'Ripperologists.' Hell, she's the founding member of their fan club.

[MrBarnett]

Everything is relative.

Compared to Bruce Robinson's book, Rubenhold practically gushes over the intelligence and insights of 'Ripperologists.' Hell, she's the founding member of their fan club.

“From the outset, a number of so-called Ripperologists took offence at the book’s claims that it was the first full-length biography to examine the five canonical victims as a subject divorced from the story of their killer. Apart from a small booklet containing fifty-seven pages of text, nothing else on the subject existed, but somehow, I’d already got off on the wrong foot.”

Two sentences containing two lies.