Let’s Talk About Plagiarism

[MrBarnett]

"If you try to hive off the experts from the rest.."

That has been attempted, has it not?

Has it? Which experts are we talking about?

[Monty]

Has it? Which experts are we talking about?

To quote the blurb of the part plagiarised works

”The authors of this book are all members of [now defunct I believe] H Division Crime Club, the world's largest body of experts on the Jack the Ripper murders.”

So Keith Stride for a start.

[Debra A]

... But what I'm trying to say is that 'Ripperology' will always consist of experts right the way down to novices. If you try to hive off the experts from the rest, you get an academic or quasi-academic bubble and before you know it people are being thrown off boards for 'bringing Ripperology into disrepute.' Note I'm only talking about sloppy research or outlandish theories. If people are actually dishonest then by all means throw them off the boards (though that's a matter for the proprietors).

I agree, Robert. Apart from condemning plagiarism and dishonesty when it is brought to our attention, I'm not sure what else can be done. We are all coming to the subject for different reasons and have different interests and goals.

[Howard Brown]

My original decision to put the thread in JTRForums' members only section was my desire to not promote the book.
On second thought, its best that that thread be seen by one and all.
Its back in its original spot....and that's where it will stay.
H.Brown

[Monty]

My original decision to put the thread in JTRForums' members only section was my desire not to promote the book.
On second thought, its best that that thread be seen by one and all.
Its back in its original spot....and that's where it will stay.
H.Brown

Valid reasoning in my humble opinion How, appreciate the clarification. One I hadnt considered admittedly.

It would be a shame that other innocent contributors miss out due to the incompetency of two, one of whom may be his own worse enemy but whose actions often impact on those genuine researcher/authors.

Monty

[MrBarnett]

To quote the blurb of the part plagiarised works

”The authors of this book are all members of [now defunct I believe] H Division Crime Club, the world's largest body of experts on the Jack the Ripper murders.”

So Keith Stride for a start.

Yes, it’s a pity when such experts are subjected to censorship.

[Monty]

Yes, it’s a pity when such experts are subjected to censorship.

Not as much as a pity when one of these ‘experts’ pass off the hard work of others as their own, overshadows the solid work of others whilst pissing it up and treating both the plagiarised and fellow contributor with contempt.

[MrBarnett]

Not as much as a pity when one of these ‘experts’ pass off the hard work of others as their own, overshadows the solid work of others whilst pissing it up and treating both the plagiarised and fellow contributor with contempt.

Ah, so we’re talking ‘experts’ rather than experts. Your irony wasn’t clear in the original post. I thought you might have been talking about Drew Gray, who for some reason has been inserted into this thread.

[jmenges]

I mentioned Drew Gray only because I was thinking of him and how he seems to envision a day when Ripper researcher’s work is respected, valued and taken seriously by those relevant disciplines outside of our field...while in reality there are those inside of our field, who’ve been around here for a long time, who don’t even respect them.
It could be that Drew’s delusional and I hope against hope. I’m beginning to think so.

JM

[Monty]

Ah, so we’re talking ‘experts’ rather than experts. Your irony wasn’t clear in the original post. I thought you might have been talking about Drew Gray, who for some reason has been inserted into this thread.

I was referring to ‘experts’ as defined by the la H Division Crime Club.

[Monty]

I think you hoped I was talking about Drew.

[MrBarnett]

I think you hoped I was talking about Drew.

Deep thought.

[MrBarnett]

I mentioned Drew Gray only because I was thinking of him and how he seems to envision a day when Ripper researcher’s work is respected, valued and taken seriously by those relevant disciplines outside of our field...while in reality there are those inside of our field, who’ve been around here for a long time, who don’t even respect them.
It could be that Drew’s delusional and I hope against hope. I’m beginning to think so.

JM

I think Drew is delusional if he thinks he has evidence that James Hardiman was a knacker. And anyone who thinks there is an homogenous group that can be labelled ‘Ripperologists’ is even more deluded.

Who would be in that group? You, me, Trevor, Debs, Paul, Robert, David ‘Orsam’, ‘Pierre’, the Vincent van Gogh guy... etc, etc.

What makes Drew and Hallie stand out from that group?

[Monty]

I mentioned Drew Gray only because I was thinking of him and how he seems to envision a day when Ripper researcher’s work is respected, valued and taken seriously by those relevant disciplines outside of our field...while in reality there are those inside of our field, who’ve been around here for a long time, who don’t even respect them.
It could be that Drew’s delusional and I hope against hope. I’m beginning to think so.

JM

As you know Jon, I attended Drews talk. Some parts I agreed with, some parts not so sure, all of it thought provoking on a personal level.

I recall Stewart Evans raising the definition of experts in Ripperology. What is a expert in this subject?

I think the issue is standards, be it quality of research and the review of. In an age where anonymity of social media has shaped online behaviour to the more abusive, objective reviews (and the reactions to) soon descend into a slanging match of some magnitude.

im guilty of it, it’s easy to do. And it isn’t just an issue in Ripperology. The academic world is equally susceptible, along with many.

I think Drews vision is a bringing together of the outstanding knowledge held in our community with the analysis frameworks utilised in the academic world.


My take, for what it is worth.

Monty

[Debra A]

Who would be in that group? You, me, Trevor, Debs, Paul, Robert, David ‘Orsam’, ‘Pierre’, the Vincent van Gogh guy... etc, etc.

What makes Drew and Hallie stand out from that group?

That's true. Academics in the same field tend to have similar qualifications, experiences etc. Ours is not a 'field' it is a wide variety of people interested in the same subject finding the place that suits them best to discuss it. Some Ripperologists have shown that it is possible to get involved with academics and gain their respect. Those who seek it and are deemed worthy seem to get it without too much trouble.