The London Underworld in the Victorian Period - Henry Mayhew

[Brenda]

"Authentic first-person accounts by beggars, thieves and prostitutes"

I just got this book and I want to stop everything and read it right this minute, but unfortunately that can't happen. Has anyone read this book and/or want to discuss it?

[Archaic]

Hello Brenda, how are you?

I read Mayhew's 'London Underworld' several years ago and found it fascinating.

You'll really enjoy it and you'll pick up all kinds of strange Victorian street-slang to try on your friends.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Sister Hyde]

Hello Brenda, how are you?

I read Mayhew's 'London Underworld' several years ago and found it fascinating.

You'll really enjoy it and you'll pick up all kinds of strange Victorian street-slang to try on your friends.

Best regards,
Archaic

Well, thank you both young ladies for the tip it sounds terrific

[Brenda]

.

I'm almost positive I got the tip to read this book on this site...maybe it was you, Archaic! I added it to my "wish list" at Amazon and it has sat there for quite awhile.

You know, I hardly ever read anything about the Ripper murders anymore. I've found my true interest is just plain Victorian London. There is so much more to learn about this case than just the murders themselves.

[Archaic]

Hi Brenda. Maybe it was us having that talk long ago!

I have 183 books on my Amazon Wish List. At that rate -

I need a Fairy Godmother.

Archaic

[Adam Went]

Hi Brenda and all,

I've often found myself spouting the virtues of Mayhew's work in terms of discussing Victoriania, it's a fantastic read - very much an eye opening one - and i'm sure you'll love it.

I have the Wordsworth edition of "London Labour and the London Poor" - all 650 odd pages of it - there are a few different editions with slightly varying material but much of it is the same.

By all means let us know your thoughts as you go through it....

There's also anothe excellent book from the late 90's called "The Victorian Underworld" by Donald Thomas, which contains some other excerpts from Mayhew's studies amongst a bunch of other brilliant stuff.....get your hands on that if you can too.

Incidentally, I just picked up the encyclopedia collection of Charles Dickens' work for $20 today - 34 books worth. Rapt. (even if I do have 5 different copies of Oliver Twist now...)

Cheers,
Adam.

[Phil H]

I read Mayhew quite extensively in the 80s and even appeared as the man himself in an amateur thearical production excerpting his characters. (For one night only.)

Undoubtedly, the books as fascinating and bring to life Dicken's London, but I do sometimes wonder whether they are wholly relevant to 1888, and advise caution in accepting them as a picture/evidence for the Ripper period.

Think how different (though perhaps ostensibly similar) would be a similar social study of Britain or the US in the 1950s and the situation in say the 1980s.

But as a way to immerse oneself in "Victorian" London( through that description itself covers 60 years - 1837-1901), Mayhew is indispensible.

Phil

[Brenda]

It starts out with prostitutes, and it is VERY hard not to have our Whitechapel victims in mind when reading about these women. In particular this stood out - "Loose women generally throw a veil over their early life and you seldom, if ever, meet with a woman who is not either a seduced governess or a clergyman's daughter; not that there is a word of truth in such an allegation - but it is their peculiar whim to say so."
It reminded me of MJK and her supposed time in France, also in that not a trace that she ever existed can be found. (If the census researchers here can't find you, you ain't gonna be found!!) I think just about every word out of MJK's mouth was a lie.
The book has also chronicled young girls lured to London under the guise of getting domestic work and then put into the sex trade. It is so heartbreaking, even more heartbreaking to realize that this kind of thing STILL happens today.

[Adam Went]

Most of the jobs people engaged in throughout Mayhew's work were still very much prevalent in 1888, although times had changed somewhat.

Brenda:

The book has also chronicled young girls lured to London under the guise of getting domestic work and then put into the sex trade. It is so heartbreaking, even more heartbreaking to realize that this kind of thing STILL happens today.

This is exactly the type of thing that W.T. Stead and his colleagues put their own necks on the line to stop in the mid-1880's, raising the age of consent and banning exactly those kinds of underage trades. Many people didn't like the media and don't like them now but Stead unashamedly an bravely spearheaded that campaign, which was shouted down by many high ranking officials, not on moral grounds, but because they themselves had been involved with these young victims.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Sister Hyde]

Undoubtedly, the books as fascinating and bring to life Dicken's London, but I do sometimes wonder whether they are wholly relevant to 1888, and advise caution in accepting them as a picture/evidence for the Ripper period.

Think how different (though perhaps ostensibly similar) would be a similar social study of Britain or the US in the 1950s and the situation in say the 1980s.


Phil

Yes, I"m half way through the book and the statistics he uses cover from 1850 to 1860, so I guess the London of 1888 was somehow different. I bet the different classification of the different types of prostitutes he makes was already much different almost 30 years later. But I really enjoy it so far, and Jesus, that woman page 46.... where can I find her???? I want her to be my granny!

[Monty]

Whilst I agree with some of Phil Hs comments the rate of difference between 1850s/60s and 1880s was not rapid.

The book is fascinating and is essentially a look into the world of a young Jack the Ripper, if you believe he was local that is. Mayhews (though we must acknowledge others actually did the bulk of the work) book is fascinating and, if you enjoy that, I suggest you buy East End 1888 by Bill Fishman.

Monty

[Debra A]

To maybe bridge that gap, you can't go wrong with two excellent books by Fergus Linnane.He quotes Mayhew extensively but carries the subjects through the decades to the present time.

London's Underworld: Three Centuries of Vice and Crime
London: The Wicked City: A Thousand Years of Prostitution and Vice

Both well worth reading.

[Adam Went]

Jack London's "People Of The Abyss" from a few years after JTR was around as well....

You just can't beat first hand accounts.

Cheers,
Adam.

[SirJohnFalstaff]

There is a very interesting (and affordable in e-book format) analysis version of this book available, by Donald Thomas called "The Victorian Underworld".

Most of the examples pre date JtR by 20 years (I think Mayhew died in 1889), but it's a fascinating read.

Highly recommended.

EDIT: there are hardcover copies from the UK as low as 1$ on abebooks.com

[drstrange169]

Lucky man I am, I have a wife who brought me the full four volumes of Mayhew for my birthday last year.