Jack the Ripper and the Case for Scotland Yard's Prime Suspect - Rob House

[robhouse]

Hey Rob,
what about the small alleyway between houses and workshops………….could one traverse this and enter a workshop without going through the front of the house……………?
Greg

Hi Greg,

I don't really think there would have been any way to get into the workshop, except via the house, which again probably led to a hall that exited right into the yard. Then I think there would have been a space of several feet, then the workshop being a separate building. According to the Goad map which Chris posted earlier, it does not see there was any gap between the several workshops along that stretch. However, as I said, I do think that Kozminski could have gone through the house and into the backyard without waking up the rest of the family. I mean, the Ripper did this at Hanbury street without waking any of the residents there, so it would have been about the same thing.

Rob H

[robhouse]

Well said. By now Rob has no doubt received MANY seals of approval for his important and exceptionally well-written book. Is it just me or is it impossible to tell that it's his first book? It reads like a book written by a seasoned pro.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Thanks Tom,

Well I was an English major after all.
Rob H

[John Malcolm]

Greg,

As one who cannot deny bias (as Rob's book has definitely had an influence on me), my words may not warrant serious consideration. That being said, my first comment here is that your lucidity and brevity in the above comments should be used as a model for all posters. You bring up the (taboo?) "bizarre Jewish angle"- this, to me, is no small matter. On all fronts, I think Rob's work is one of the best and most important books ever written on the subject, "suspect-based" or otherwise. And I've read a few. I'm still a ways away from being entirely convinced of anything, but I've got some pretty strong opinions. I think we're heading in the right direction.

John

[John Malcolm]

Hey Rob,

Your posts showed up while I was posting my own. Weird how things work sometimes...

[GregBaron]

I'll be brief............maybe

Hi Rob,

Ok, I'll accept entrance through the house as the only method of entry to the workshop. Now I'm wondering who else may have slept in the workshop? It does seem company could interfere with secrecy and clean up duties....

Hi John,

my first comment here is that your lucidity and brevity in the above comments should be used as a model for all posters

I wasn't sure if you were here being facetious? I'm also not sure if I've ever been accused of "brevity" or "lucidity". If you are being facetious I can live with that, if not, thanks for the compliment.

Rob's book is great, I especially liked the stuff about Poland and the East End tailors - new information to me. The murders - well- we've kind of been through those. I also think Rob weaves together circumstantial evidence in a very inductive and impressive way. Am I convinced? No, of course not. I'm convinced of nothing about this case but like of all us I suppose, I find it endlessly fascinating.......I hope we're on the right track as you suggest....


Greg

[John Malcolm]

Greg,

I was actually being serious...sometimes my own fogginess doesn't translate well. We definitely still have a long way to go before we can settle on anything close to a solution, but I do think ...And the Case for... is ground-breaking insofar as it is presented with a perspective that has been desperately needed- that being from the inside of the community that was most affected by and most central to the murders.

And although I do appreciate essay-length posts, I nod off less when they are short and to the point, which isn't always easy. So my apologies to all for my previous and frequently strange posts.

[GregBaron]

Succinct?

Thanks John, I'm among the worst for long meandering posts so maybe I'm trying to learn a bit of succint-ness to overcome my propensities. I agree with you about Rob's book and the centrality of the murders. Perhaps we'll get to the bottom of this someday although it's doubtful. Then we would all have to get a life though and of course that would be difficult...

Greg

[Abby Normal]

I just wanted to thank everyone for their comments on the book. I have been sort of laying low so as to allow others to discuss the ideas I raised in the book without my input. But since I see this thread has stalled, I was just wondering if anyone had any questions or comments they would like to address to me. I would be happy to discuss anything.

Rob H

Hi Rob
Bought and read your book. I thoroughly enjoyed it-excellent work.

What, in your view, is the most likely sequence of the following events and approx dates:

Threatens sister with knife
first admittance to the workhouse
police are first notified of AK (and by whom? family or doctors)
ID at seaside home
surveilance of AK
second stint at workhouse/asylum


Thanks!

[Chris]

I don't really think there would have been any way to get into the workshop, except via the house, which again probably led to a hall that exited right into the yard. Then I think there would have been a space of several feet, then the workshop being a separate building. According to the Goad map which Chris posted earlier, it does not see there was any gap between the several workshops along that stretch. However, as I said, I do think that Kozminski could have gone through the house and into the backyard without waking up the rest of the family. I mean, the Ripper did this at Hanbury street without waking any of the residents there, so it would have been about the same thing.

I suppose it might have been different if the whole house had been occupied by Isaac, rather than being divided between several households as was the case at 29 Hanbury Street. But I'm not clear whether that was the case. In 1891, Isaac's is the only household, but it occupies only three rooms, which seems too few to represent the whole house (nos 72, 73, 75 and 76 each add up to four or five rooms). Then again, I'm not sure how this might have been affected if part of the house was used exclusively as a workshop.

Also, in the Booth poverty survey of December 1886 (which doesn't record names), in addition to what seems to be Isaac's household, there is another household (or individual) at this address.

In any case I suppose it's likely there would have been at least one locked door between the street and the garden workshop at night, so if someone was sleeping there they would need a key to get out.

[robhouse]

About a month and a half back I recorded a podcast on the book with Jim Harold of the "Paranormal Podcast." The podcast is available online if anyone wants to listen to it. There is nothing particularly new on there, but here is the link in any case:

http://content.blubrry.com/paranormalplus/Jack_The_Ripper_-_Crime_Scene_7.mp3

RH

[Raven]

Rob, just finished .. and the case for.. and am just as impressed as everyone else seems to be. Your hard work and research is evident. That, coupled with an easy-to-read writing style, has instantly made your book one of my favorite suspect books I have ever read (not just the Ripper case!).

One small peave, which I was hoping you could address. (Forgive me if you have tackled this before, as I am new to the boards) How do you overcome the gap in age between Kozminski (early 20's at the time of the murders) and the eyewitness accounts of men, mostly ranging from late 20's to 30's seen with the victims shortly before their murders? I was hoping to see you go into this more in the book. This had always been my biggest hurdle to overcome when contemplating Aaron as a suspect.

Thanks.

[robhouse]

Hi Raven, and thank you for the compliment.

As far as the age thing... well in a nutshell, age is pretty difficult to estimate, and really the difference between age 23 and age 28 is not so much. Try this yourself next time you are walking around... see if you can estimate a person's age... especially a young person. This may have been even more difficult in the Victorian era when most adults had a mustache and wore hats.

Eyewitness testimony is often quite off in terms of age. This was evident in the Robert Napper case I believe, for just one example.

Rob H

[Casebook Wiki Editor]

We are in need of a review for the Wiki :

http://wiki.casebook.org/index.php/Jack_the_Ripper_And_The_Case_For_Scotland_Yard%27s_Prime_Suspect

[The Grave Maurice]

I may have mentioned elsewhere that there was a postal strike/lockout in Canada earlier this summer. As a result, after it was settled, I had several books arrive more or less simultaneously and I've just now been able to get around to reading this one.

I finished it this afternoon and it's good. Very good. It's the best suspect book I've read since...well, I'm not sure. I'll ponder.

All I'm certain of is that everyone who hangs around here should buy a copy.

[Wolf Vanderlinden]

"The best suspect book I read since..." etc, etc.

Hmm. I keep shaking my head and wondering if everyone read the same book I did. I was deeply disappointed and it reminded me exactly why suspect driven books are mostly a con job.

Wolf.