Expert "Discrepancies"

[John Winsett]

I'm kind of new to the forum but not JTR. Am I the only one who notices the discrepancies and additions that the experts are telling us? Two of the most interesting were from Donald Rumbelow and Martin Fido. Rumbelow(whom I have the greatest respect for)stated in a documentary about Sherlock Holmes(available on Veoh)that Mary Kelly's leg bone was split open with an ax. He also declared in another documentary called to Kill and Kill again that the name Jack the Ripper was not used until after the "fourth killing". Fido has a hang up on using the word "lightly" when describing some of the throat cuts such as strides and I believe he did for eddowes in his audio book. He also stated in the Identity of Jack the ripper documentary in '88 that Annie Chapman had inflamed membranes which I had never heard before. Can anyone verify these claims or point me to thier origins?

[Simon Wood]

Hi John,

The name Jack the Ripper was not known publicly until Monday 1st October, the day after the so-called double event.

Regards,

Simon

[John Winsett]

Hi John,

The name Jack the Ripper was not known publicly until Monday 1st October, the day after the so-called double event.

Regards,

Simon

Hi Simon,
thanks for that.

[corey123]

Hi John,

Also Annie Chapman was very ill before her death. As a matter of fact she was dying when she died. Of coarse, this had no impact on her cause of death.

In the words of Dr. George Bagster Phillips :


"The deceased was far advanced in disease of the lungs and membranes of the brain, but they had nothing to do with the cause of death. The stomach contained little food, but there was not any sign of fluid. There was no appearance of the deceased having taken alcohol, but there were signs of great deprivation and he should say she had been badly fed."


Yours truly

[Adam Went]

Well Annie was the oldest victim out of the canonical 5, and we must remember that the average life expectancy was much lower in 1888 than it is now. In many ways, it's actually quite remarkable that all the victims except for MJK had lived into middle age in the state of health that they were in, considering the lifestyles that they lead (there was Kate's Brights Disease as well, remember).

Although Annie's condition definitely had nothing to do with her death, it would be a reasonable suggestion that she might not have lived for too much longer with it beyond September 1888.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Annie Chapman must have been quite ill during the week before her death, because she hadn't been taking the medicine or applying the lotion she had obtained from St Bartholomew's Hospital.

Regards,

Simon

[Gman992]

Well, a lot of people are theorizing that she had trouble standing her last night on Earth, not because she was drunk, but that she was ill.

[Adam Went]

We must bear in mind as well that medical treatments and technology in 1888 was nothing compared to what we have today. Whereas Annie might have been totally cured if she was living today, or atleast treated in such a way to be able to extend her life span, she would have been virtually helpless then - especially in the destitute situation she found herself in and unable to afford any primitive medical treatments that might have been available.

Anyway, at 47, she had just about lived to the average life span then....it's fair to say that if Jack had gone looking for her on October 8, 1888, rather than September 8, he might not have found her....

Cheers,
Adam.

[Stewart P Evans]

Hatchet

I'm kind of new to the forum but not JTR. Am I the only one who notices the discrepancies and additions that the experts are telling us? Two of the most interesting were from Donald Rumbelow and Martin Fido. Rumbelow(whom I have the greatest respect for)stated in a documentary about Sherlock Holmes(available on Veoh)that Mary Kelly's leg bone was split open with an ax. He also declared in another documentary called to Kill and Kill again that the name Jack the Ripper was not used until after the "fourth killing"...Can anyone verify these claims or point me to thier origins?

One of the peculiarities of Ripperworld are the 'new theories' that often appear, apparently supported by 'fact'. The hatchet used on Mary Kelly is an example of this.

Some years ago a Ripper researcher 'discovered' a newspaper article, about the 'Black Museum' at New Scotland Yard, in which the writer claimed that on display in the museum was the hatchet 'used by the Whitechapel murderer to hack and disfigure the body of the first poor girl [sic] who fell a prey to his fiendish fury in Dorset-street.' This article appeared in The Globe of February 16, 1891 (see below).

One Ripper authority (not Don) hastened to re-examine the Kelly crime scene photo and decided that he could tell that the femur in her left leg had been longitudinally split and that such damage could be inflicted only with an axe. This 'theory' the appeared in print and for a while it became a vogue to repeat, with some authority, that an axe had been used on Kelly. At the time Don obviously subscribed to this idea. In my opinion the story is totally spurious and there is no evidence that any such hatchet has ever been on display in the Crime Museum.

[Stewart P Evans]

The Globe Article

Here is the reference in The Globe article to the hatchet.

[John Winsett]

Here is the reference in The Globe article to the hatchet.

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Thank you very much for the info. I never heard of the axe story before.

[macknnc]

Niether have I and I've read Rumbelow....(had a copy at one time..but it has since disappeared)..

I guess the Ripper could have kept the hatchet in that Gladstone/oilcloth/american cloth bag he always seems to carrying about with him..

[Stewart P Evans]

The Ripper Did Not Use A Hatchet

...

I guess the Ripper could have kept the hatchet in that Gladstone/oilcloth/american cloth bag he always seems to carrying about with him..

The Ripper did not use a hatchet! The hatchet displayed in the 'Black Museum' was an exhibit from the Wainwright case of 1875

Wainwright murdered Harriet Lane whose remains he buried in his shop at 215 Whitechapel Road. He was known at the time as 'the Whitechapel murderer' and this is undoubtedly how the press confusion arose.

[Tom_Wescott]

The axe myth is pretty much dead now, but did resurface in a recent documentary when mentioned as 'fact' by Lindsey Siviter, who was very pleasant on the eyes in that DVD.

Anyway, at 47, she had just about lived to the average life span then

This is not at all correct. We're talking about 1888 here, one One Million Years BC.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Phil Carter]

Hello Adam,

I may be wrong, but I believe the average life expectancy of a female born in the mid 1800's was around 42.

best wishes

Phil