Jack and the Thames Torso Murders: A New Ripper?

[Elamarna]

Wake up Steve old chap. Is that Scottish air slowing you down

Yes the reduction in polluted air is wonderful, means I don't cough all the time.


Steve

[Herlock Sholmes]

It's ok Caz, i am so wrapped up in Bucks Row work, i didn't pick it up.


Steve

Wake up Steve old chap. Is that Scottish air slowing you down

[MrBarnett]

Sorry Steve, it was a poor joke on my part: Torso group - who heads it?

I'll get me coat.

Love,

Caz
X

The group doesn’t have a head - it’s an anarchist group - but they’re ‘armless (except when they get legless).

[Elamarna]

Sorry Steve, it was a poor joke on my part: Torso group - who heads it?

I'll get me coat.

Love,

Caz
X

It's ok Caz, i am so wrapped up in Bucks Row work, i didn't pick it up.


Steve

[caz]

Hi Caz,

Amanda Lloyd, Suzi Huntington and Myself.

It's not a big group but has a few well known researchers on board.

It is an area, which has not been fully investigated as we all know, so any input is welcome


Steve

Sorry Steve, it was a poor joke on my part: Torso group - who heads it?

I'll get me coat.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

well considering that I lean toward torsoman and the ripper being the same man I think McKenzie and then Pinchin were his last victims (that we know about).

I don't go for copy cat killing idea-in the annals of crime no serial killer has tried to make his work look like another known killers work, let alone another serial killers work. Its Hollywood stuff.

I agree that copy cat murder sounds more Hollywood than grim reality, Abby.

That said, the torso murders [deaths/manslaughters?] don't appear to me to reflect any kind of attempt to copy the way the ripper rolled, so I'm not sure what criteria are being used to argue that the same killer fits all. I look forward to finding out.

From what I've read to date, the ripper and torso cases seem to me to be entirely independent of one another, not so coincidentally unfolding at a time when we know such series were emerging as a recognisable phenomenon of modern life in 'civilised' societies. Cream anyone? Klosowski?

Love,

Caz
X

[Elamarna]

Who heads it?

Hi Caz,

Amanda Lloyd, Suzi Huntington and Myself.

It's not a big group but has a few well known researchers on board.

It is an area, which has not been fully investigated as we all know, so any input is welcome


Steve

[caz]

Most of the other suspects have been exhausted to death. Lechmere, on the other hand, is a relatively new name. Lechmere admittedly has more legs than some of the other names put forward down the years, if only by dint of being in Buck's Row that morning. I still think there's a lot more work to be done before anyone could consider him a legitimate suspect. 'Person of interest' maybe. More to the point, one of the marks against Lechmere is the fact that the second murder occurred while the Nichols' inquest was still ongoing. That would point to someone who wasn't on the police radar, and Lechmere wasn't to know that the police weren't keeping tabs on his movements.

That's a smart observation, Harry.

I suppose the counterargument is that a psychopath like Lechmere would have considered it "all in the game" and positively relished the thought of the police watching him day and night and still not cottoning on to what he was doing under their noses because he was just too clever for your average copper.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

John, don't know if you do facebook, but there is a torso group there.

Steve

Who heads it?

[Boggles]

Well i need to do some swotting up on this torsoman killer before i can comment further. My inital reaction is to have two such brutal serial killers around at the same time and same area is questionable, i wonder if not the same person then were they somehow associated, it wouldnt be the first time.

[Abby Normal]

A reasonable and very valid point,

Unless of course this Torso murderer was still at large, and thought he/she would try his hand as a (poor) copcat JTR - in which case its all still up in the air.

well considering that I lean toward torsoman and the ripper being the same man I think McKenzie and then Pinchin were his last victims (that we know about).


I don't go for copy cat killing idea-in the annals of crime no serial killer has tried to make his work look like another known killers work, let alone another serial killers work. Its Hollywood stuff.

[Boggles]

as I think McKenzie was a ripper victim-this is a wash for me.

A reasonable and very valid point,

Unless of course this Torso murderer was still at large, and thought he/she would try his hand as a (poor) copcat JTR - in which case its all still up in the air.

[Abby Normal]

Hi John G Sorry to interrupt but regarding your point:


Can I ask why not? Because he had the means to be at any of the crime scenes from his residence in Spanby Road in under 30 minutes. (Probably needed an hour if you include horse/cart preparation time, tacking up etc, in fact it was probably quicker to walk it in 40 minutes)

Anyway certainly less time than it took many of the known serial killers to get to their respective murder sites (Sutcliffe for example)

Though I cannot dispute he has as stronger link to the crime scene as Lechmere, who was actually at a crime scene, we do at least have testimony from a witness at his trial that he did once beat up his wife in a Whitechapel pub, which at least shows that he went there.

Regarding these Torso killings, I don’t know anything about them, but I will look into it. Im was quite surprised about them actually.

Hi Boggles
Bury is one of the least weak suspects IMHO.
He was known killer
He displayed similar sig-post mortem mutilation and abdoman gashed
He was a person of interest at the time
known to frequest pubs and prostitutes

geographically I think he is somewhat weak compared to other suspects-he lived far away comparitively and little evidence he was in WC.

His leaving for Dundee coincides with the end of the C5 murders, but as I think McKenzie was a ripper victim-this is a wash for me.

still one of the least weak suspects for me.

[Boggles]

Hi John G Sorry to interrupt but regarding your point:

especially as Bury doesn't really fit the geo profile

Can I ask why not? Because he had the means to be at any of the crime scenes from his residence in Spanby Road in under 30 minutes. (Probably needed an hour if you include horse/cart preparation time, tacking up etc, in fact it was probably quicker to walk it in 40 minutes)

Anyway certainly less time than it took many of the known serial killers to get to their respective murder sites (Sutcliffe for example)

Though I cannot dispute he has as stronger link to the crime scene as Lechmere, who was actually at a crime scene, we do at least have testimony from a witness at his trial that he did once beat up his wife in a Whitechapel pub, which at least shows that he went there.

Regarding these Torso killings, I don’t know anything about them, but I will look into it. Im was quite surprised about them actually.

[Elamarna]

I wonder if it is going to be said about Drew Gray that he is a nutter who tries to pin each and every murder committed in late 19:th century London on the same man...?

I believe the response will be based on the evidence he presents and the murders he includes in his proposal.

Steve