the victims werent prostitutes

[Abby Normal]

But Abby, if Mary was paying off her debt with sex [or by doing odd chores for the McCarthys for example], she wouldn't have got so far in arrears, would she? If she truly was as badly in arrears [ie debt] as McCarthy appears to have claimed, then she wasn't 'paying off' that debt [ie the arrears] with cash or with anything else. No point in paying in other ways if the debt only keeps going up, never down.

Of course it's possible that McCarthy only claimed she was in debt to him by that much to stop tongues wagging that she may have been living there rent free in return for sexual services.

Love,

Caz
X

Hi caz

thanks-I see what your saying here and basically agree. On the other hand he hadn't kicked her out yet for getting so far behind.


again just thinking out loud, I don't really think that was what was going on because there is no evidence for it-just wanted to get others take on the possibility.

[Simon Wood]

Hi MrBarnett,

Just because I don't believe any of this arrant nonsense is no reason for you to do likewise.

Enjoy.

Regards,

Simon

[Sam Flynn]

It may be one explanation why [McCarthy] would allow one of his tenants to get so far in arrears.

I'm pretty sure I read McCarthy saying that more than one of his tenants were in arrears. Darned if I can remember where, though.

[caz]

any possibility that Mary was paying off her debt with sex?

do we know how moral McCarthy was?
how scrupulous a businessman he was?Any evidence he kept records of debt and payments from his tenants?

It may be one explanation why he would allow one of his tenants to get so far in arrears. just thinking out loud here.

But Abby, if Mary was paying off her debt with sex [or by doing odd chores for the McCarthys for example], she wouldn't have got so far in arrears, would she? If she truly was as badly in arrears [ie debt] as McCarthy appears to have claimed, then she wasn't 'paying off' that debt [ie the arrears] with cash or with anything else. No point in paying in other ways if the debt only keeps going up, never down.

Of course it's possible that McCarthy only claimed she was in debt to him by that much to stop tongues wagging that she may have been living there rent free in return for sexual services.

Love,

Caz
X

[MrBarnett]

Because if your proposition was correct, an amount somewhat less than 27 shillings [6 weeks at 4/6 a week] would have been outstanding.

Personally, I don't believe Kelly existed, was in arrears, was out on Commercial Street, met Hutchinson or Mr. Astrakhan, or was murdered by JtR, but if you want to argue the ins and outs of a scenario which never took place, please be my guest.

BTW Simon,

Thank you so much for your gracious permission to discuss Mary Kelly as if she existed and might have been a victim of the non-existent JTR. I'm sure all the other deluded fools who think she did and probably was are equally grateful.

🤔

[MrBarnett]

Because if your proposition was correct, an amount somewhat less than 27 shillings [6 weeks at 4/6 a week] would have been outstanding.

Personally, I don't believe Kelly existed, was in arrears, waos out on Commercial Street, met Hutchinson or Mr. Astrakhan, or was murdered by JtR, but if you want to argue the ins and outs of a scenario which never took place, please be my guest.

What proposition?

I have no idea when Joe and Mary started to get into arrears with their rent. Or whether any of Mary's earnings or Joe's top-ups went towards reducing their debt to McCarthy.

I must be missing something, is there a source which tells us the debt was 27s on 30/10 and still that amount on 9/11?

If you say you don't believe Kelly even existed, why are you arguing the toss about the minutiae of her rent arrears?

[Simon Wood]

Because if your proposition was correct, an amount somewhat less than 27 shillings [6 weeks at 4/6 a week] would have been outstanding.

Personally, I don't believe Kelly existed, was in arrears, was out on Commercial Street, met Hutchinson or Mr. Astrakhan, or was murdered by JtR, but if you want to argue the ins and outs of a scenario which never took place, please be my guest.

[MrBarnett]

Well, they were still in rent arrears on 9th November, and according to folklore "Kelly" met Mr. A while out on Commercial Street trying to borrow sixpence.

So how does that show she hadn't earned anything from her 'occupation' in the past ten days and even possibly handed some of it over to McCarthy?

I'm sure you don't believe Kelly wasn't out on Commercial Street 'trying to borrow sixpence'. Unless Hutchinson was making it up, she was there trying to turn a trick or two. Whether she recognised Hutch as a 'friend' who might sub her a tanner or whether she was offering him sex for that price, we'll never know.

[Simon Wood]

Well, they were still in rent arrears on 9th November, and according to folklore "Kelly" met Mr. A while out on Commercial Street trying to borrow sixpence.

[MrBarnett]

Why didn't "Mary Kelly" earn any money on the game in the ten days between 30th October and 9th November?

Is it known that she didn't? Your question suggests it is.

[MrBarnett]

Depends what you mean by "out of work"


To our reporter Barnett said he and the deceased were very happy and comfortable together until another woman came to sleep in their room, to which he strongly objected. Finally, after the woman had been there two or three nights he quarrelled with the woman whom he called his wife and left her. The next day, however, he returned and gave Kelly money. He called several other days and gave her money when he had it. On Thursday night he visited her between half-past seven and eight, and told her he was sorry he had no money to give her.

Star on the 10th

How about 'out of regular work'?

[Simon Wood]

Why didn't "Mary Kelly" earn any money on the game in the ten days between 30th October and 9th November?

[packers stem]

Ah, so even though Barnett had been out of work for 3/4 months they'd managed to keep up their rent payments until early October? Funny how McCarthy's evidence suggesting their arrrears had built up gradually coincides with Barnett's employment record.

Depends what you mean by "out of work"


To our reporter Barnett said he and the deceased were very happy and comfortable together until another woman came to sleep in their room, to which he strongly objected. Finally, after the woman had been there two or three nights he quarrelled with the woman whom he called his wife and left her. The next day, however, he returned and gave Kelly money. He called several other days and gave her money when he had it. On Thursday night he visited her between half-past seven and eight, and told her he was sorry he had no money to give her.

Star on the 10th

[MrBarnett]

One week's rent possibly ?
Barnett had been working but like with most things Millers court ..... shrouded in bull so who knows .
We only have McCarthy's word for anything which is , let's say ...... unfortunate
She may NEVER have paid any rent for all we know. .... and I suspect that is probably close to the truth

Ah, so even though Barnett had been out of work for 3/4 months they'd managed to keep up their rent payments until early October? Funny how McCarthy's evidence suggesting their arrrears had built up gradually coincides with Barnett's employment record.

[packers stem]

Really? A toff? In the court?

He'd have had to have been a pretty swell toff to have paid off Mary's (and Barnett's) 29 bob debt.

You're not aware of Bowyers sighting?
Grab the A-Z and check it out