the victims werent prostitutes

[Busy Beaver]

Polly Nichols told Emily Holland at 0.230am on the morning of her death that she had had her doss money three times that day. So how did she get that money? Polly had been sacked by her previous employer for stealing and that was how she ended up in Whitechapel living in a doss house. So she either sold something, was given money by someone, or did a" trick" or two or maybe even three. If she didn't solicit, she may used the lines, "Please Sir or Madam, can you spare some change". Not sure how well that would work in the very early hours of the morning, before she became a victim of the Ripper.

[Michael W Richards]

An excellent point, Roy.

And by the way, Michael, Anderson didn't go anywhere near Switzerland.

I suspect your right about point 2 Simon, but I dont see the story about Marys stay in Paris for a fortnight impossible at all considering her up-status bordello life at that time, and her corroborated finer attire.

I could see her sitting at tables with someone like Millen or others quite easily in that scenario. That might scare any small town gal.

[Michael W Richards]

There's a magnificent image! Would you mind if I use that at some point?

I admit I smiled when that came to me, it does seem appropriately dark. Im not a writer like many of you, but occasionally I can be an amateur wordsmith. I think AP Wolf taught me that imagination and data can co-operate in some meaningful ways.

Use as you wish Ginger, Im pleased you found it catchy.

[Michael W Richards]

There must be more to it than that, surely. How would the fact that Kate had lived with an Irishman who was a pensioner from the British army and another man with an Irish name lead you to the conclusion that she knew 'bad dude Fenians types'?

He was a member of The Royal Irish....and she tattooed her allegiance to him on her forearm.

Nice points about what was going on in and around Mitre Square jerryd. Anyone who chooses to view these murders as simply independant events which happened to coincide with the public review of allegations that a member of Parliament was co-operating and/or directing Fenian terrorist activities does so at their own risk. Look for opportunities for any of these victims to be exposed to those kinds of men, and in some cases, youll find them. Mary may well have been Irish. Kate obviously was tied emotionally to someone who would likely have met such characters on the streets and in the pubs. Irish gathered to Irish, Immigrant Jew to Immigrant Jew, all the various ethnicity spent time with their own. Its still the same today. In Toronto we have neighborhoods where signs are in languages other than French or English, with Tea Houses that have signs in Korean or Chinese. In London you have districts where there are ethnic populations that are the overwhelming majorities in those areas. People gather with people they share Politics with, or Heritages, or belief systems. Any Irish person living in the East End at that point in time could easily have heard of or known Irish men that were planning or executing terrorist acts locally. And in some cases, they would be reluctant to turn them in because of those bonds.

Like not providing an ID as a witness because the accused was of the same religion, faith, or belief.

And for Sam, all these women at some point street walked within the same areas. We know that they drank at the same pubs. Some shared street addresses, some stayed at the same lodging houses. To imagine they might have met each other, at least in some cases, isnt too hard to imagine.

[PaulB]

Don't forget, Eddowes's dad organised a strike, for which he did a little bit of prison time. Afterwards, he couldn't find work in Wolverhampton and took his family to London... Eddowes' parental environment may have shaped her political thinking, but whether or not that would have got her in with Fenians is another matter.

[packers stem]

But do we have any indication at all that either Kelly or Conway were so politically motivated that we should believe Kate knew 'bad Fenian dudes?'

Other than the red neckerchief , specifically associated with Annie Besant and her followers at the time , then no .
Nothing written in black and white but given the political climate in London at that time the chances are extremely high in my opinion .
Your opinion may be different .

[MrBarnett]

But to respond anyway .
If either had strong leanings towards home rule there is no reason to believe that Eddowes couldn't have been influenced .
Political influence often spreads through family

But do we have any indication at all that either Kelly or Conway were so politically motivated that we should believe Kate knew 'bad Fenian dudes?'

I do know her uncle got into a fight with some local Wolverhampton Irish and another uncle - Detective Cadman - beat the crap out of some Irishmen (and one woman). Perhaps Kate's political opinions were influenced by her real family.

[MrBarnett]

These were Michael's sentiments I believe

And your explanation of a possible rationale for them.

[packers stem]

But to respond anyway .
If either had strong leanings towards home rule there is no reason to believe that Eddowes couldn't have been influenced .
Political influence often spreads through family

[packers stem]

There must be more to it than that, surely. How would the fact that Kate had lived with an Irishman who was a pensioner from the British army and another man with an Irish name lead you to the conclusion that she knew 'bad dude Fenians types'?

These were Michael's sentiments I believe

[packers stem]

Dorset Street was doss-house central; it would be more noteworthy, perhaps, to find that a victim had not used its facilities at one time or another. Doesn't mean that they all lived there at the same time (they didn't), and certainly doesn't mean that they'd have been acquainted with each other.

What makes you say they didn't live there at the same time Gareth ?

[Sam Flynn]

Other than they all lived on the same side of the street between 26 and 38

Dorset Street was doss-house central; it would be more noteworthy, perhaps, to find that a victim had not used its facilities at one time or another. Doesn't mean that they all lived there at the same time (they didn't), and certainly doesn't mean that they'd have been acquainted with each other.

[MrBarnett]

Conway and Kelly in all probability

There must be more to it than that, surely. How would the fact that Kate had lived with an Irishman who was a pensioner from the British army and another man with an Irish name lead you to the conclusion that she knew 'bad dude Fenians types'?

[Busy Beaver]

I've just looked at her website and it seems Sex and Scandal are the main interests of this author. Looking at the blurbs for the book, I would say that most of the research has come from these very boards...

[packers stem]

But Mary didn't flee the 'bordello' for the anonymity of Spitalfields, she went to the Ratcliffe Highway.

Why do you say Kate is the Irish connection - because of Conway? Her family in Wolverhampton seem to have been somewhat anti-Irish.

Conway and Kelly in all probability