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the victims werent prostitutes

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
    I dunno. It might give us some insight into Albert's medical history, to say nothing of the mother/son relationship, if she'd named it "Piddles".
    Well he was feline a bit unwell as he stepped out into that back yard, and consequently into the history books.

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    • #62
      This is very odd indeed.

      A huge amount of research has been undertaken into the victims as demonstrated by the "Victims" section on these very forums. So I think we can conclude that the author has been extremely lazy in not checking the resources here (and at the "other place").

      The victim that we probably know least about is MJK; but that certainly hasn't been for want of trying.

      I have never read any demeaning comments about the victims and I've never seen them described as "ugly". We only have the mortuary photos after all.

      The author is also quoted as saying “We glorify the Ripper….”. Who does? Where on earth has she got that nonsense from? She might. But nobody I have been in contact with or have read over decades has “glorified” the Ripper.

      As for Ripperology having no respect for the victims well that is just complete bollocks. When I can I visit MJK's memorial on the anniversary of her murder. I have seen many others doing the same and the multitude of floral tributes left on each anniversary sinks the underlying premiss of this tome before it has even rolled off the printing press.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by ohrocky View Post
        This is very odd indeed.

        A huge amount of research has been undertaken into the victims as demonstrated by the "Victims" section on these very forums. So I think we can conclude that the author has been extremely lazy in not checking the resources here (and at the "other place").

        The victim that we probably know least about is MJK; but that certainly hasn't been for want of trying.

        I have never read any demeaning comments about the victims and I've never seen them described as "ugly". We only have the mortuary photos after all.

        The author is also quoted as saying “We glorify the Ripper….”. Who does? Where on earth has she got that nonsense from? She might. But nobody I have been in contact with or have read over decades has “glorified” the Ripper.

        As for Ripperology having no respect for the victims well that is just complete bollocks. When I can I visit MJK's memorial on the anniversary of her murder. I have seen many others doing the same and the multitude of floral tributes left on each anniversary sinks the underlying premiss of this tome before it has even rolled off the printing press.
        See post 31

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Harry D
          Feminism was a mistake.
          Now now. No sitting on the fence

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
            Its a very relevant point Steve, because in the case of Polly and Annie, the only 2 we KNOW were soliciting, it makes sense that their killer posed as a client to get them somewhere dark. That he was likely unknown to them, a stranger. That their killer was opportunistic and, in the latter case, shown to have an obsession with female abdominal organs. It would show us that their killer learned from his first kill (poor venue) and then applied that knowledge to the second. Some form of madness would certainly be part of his makeup.

            The point I'm making is that we would have a profile for the killer of the first 2 victims. Unless we can prove that the circumstances of the other 3 Canonicals were similar, the differences in their murders and the subsequent mutilations stand out as a sign that different killer(s) were likely at work.

            The main objective to this line of thinking has been that people assume 2 or more murderers working at the same time in a small geographical area is unlikely. Forgetting of course the Torsos and other murders within the Unsolved File that do not match the Canonical Group.

            If 3 of the Canonical Group may have been killed by someone other than the opportunistic killer, then the motives for those could be far different and potentially far more revealing about those killer(s).
            If one is studying the case yez of course it is significant Michael. However i was talking from a moralistic point of view, which appears to be the view being taken by the author. That by saying they were working girls we are devaluing them, which is not the case, that was my point.

            If there is new evidence to support the view that some were not working, that of course would be significant, time will tell
            Its just gender politics being used to push a publication at present in my view.


            Steve
            Last edited by Elamarna; 09-18-2018, 05:44 AM.

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            • #66
              Have a look at her Sept 15th tweet. The only part she disowns is the bit about the number of non-prostitutes.



              https://twitter.com/HallieRubenhold?...Ctwgr%5Eauthor

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              • #67
                The Telegraph has a paywall but anyone who wants to read the full article can do so :

                http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=28981&page=36

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Elamarna View Post
                  If one is studying the case yez of course it is significant Michael. However i was talking from a moralistic point of view, which appears to be the view being taken by the author. That by saying they were working girls we are devaluing them, which is not the case, that was my point.

                  If there is new evidence to support the view that some were not working, that of course would be significant, time will tell
                  Its just gender politics being used to push a publication at present in my view.


                  Steve
                  bingo El.
                  lets hope she at least has done good research and discovers something new about the women.
                  "Is all that we see or seem
                  but a dream within a dream?"

                  -Edgar Allan Poe


                  "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                  quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                  -Frederick G. Abberline

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Observer View Post
                    amounts of time looking into the lives of the most obscure individuals connected to the case. Who wants to know the name of Albert Cadoches mothers cat?
                    Albert Cadoches mother had a cat! Wow, what colour was it?

                    Actually, I don't think anyone goes that far, although we did ascertain the colour of Diddles, but it's interesting to find out about these people so that they are more than just names.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
                      I know who the SOTA lady is, Paul, but I have a problem with the use of the word 'abyss' so I use the name of her website to identify her (I seriously do have an issue with the term, and even more so with Jack London's view that the POA shouldn't have been allowed to breed.)

                      I'll scour my copy of the Mammoth in the hope of finding 'A ton' of examples of the use of the word 'ugly'.
                      I know you know her name, I just mentioned it in case other people didn't. Despite the fact that she has written a book about the victims in which she is quite nastily critical of Ripper authors, especially the early ones, and has the website, she doesn't know much about research or what sources there are or where they are located, so it is quite probable that she doesn't know what information writers had to work with. As for the Mammoth, Rubenhold highlighted somewhere the authors rather tactlessly say something along the lines of the victims no winning a beauty contest. As a historian, Rubenhold should judge people by the time in which they wrote, which was twenty years ago in the case of J&B. Perhaps she did judge them and found them crass for the time, or maybe she didn't take it into account.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                        If an author makes comments about her forthcoming book where she also takes the time to criticise everyone with an interest in the case then she is open for criticism herself in my opinion. Basically she has insulted everyone on this Forum by accusing us of ‘glorifying’ the ripper. She also appears to have said that the victim’s weren’t prostitutes. A fact that we know to be untrue.

                        I’ve also criticised a so-called author who claims that Vincent Van Gogh was the ripper before the appearance of his worthless book.

                        Authors cannot be exempts from criticism. I only said that, based on her comments, I don’t hold much hope out for her book if those are samples of her thinking. The book might turn out to be a good one though. I’ll buy it myself if Gary reads it and says that it’s good or if Paul gives it a good review in Ripperologist or on here.
                        Unfortunately, I won't be reviewing the book in Ripperologist because Rubenhold has already very rudely and completely unnecessarily stated publicly and in the newspapers that I'd purposefully tear her book apart. So, if her book is crap and I did tear it apart, she'd just say 'told you so' and claim I'm biased against it (which I am not and have no reason to be). I would have asked Richard Whittington-Egan to review it, but sadly he's no longer with us. I do have two reviewers though, so should get a balanced viewpoint.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          I hope one of them is female, or else in the event of a negative verdict it will be down to bias blah blah blah.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Robert View Post
                            I hope one of them is female, or else in the event of a negative verdict it will be down to bias blah blah blah.
                            Yes, one is. As in an excellent choice for that reason, is honest and takes no prisoners.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              One thing I'm 100% certain of is that if the book does contain new material, the much-maligned Ripperologists will praise it to the rooftops. If not, they may not be quite so generous.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by PaulB View Post
                                Unfortunately, I won't be reviewing the book in Ripperologist because Rubenhold has already very rudely and completely unnecessarily stated publicly and in the newspapers that I'd purposefully tear her book apart. So, if her book is crap and I did tear it apart, she'd just say 'told you so' and claim I'm biased against it (which I am not and have no reason to be). I would have asked Richard Whittington-Egan to review it, but sadly he's no longer with us. I do have two reviewers though, so should get a balanced viewpoint.
                                I’m afraid that the more that I hear of this woman the less impressed I become.
                                Regards

                                Herlock






                                "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact!"

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