Jack the Ripper Suspect Dr. Francis Tumblety

[Herlock Sholmes]

As this thread seems to have morphed into a thread about me and then into one about Spandau Ballet, perhaps I can combine the two topics and provide some more information for the file which Mike Hawley appears to be compiling on me (inaccurately so far).

As an amateur songwriter, I had the pleasure a few years ago of recording one of my songs with the legendary Steve Norman, the sax player from Spandau Ballet. He performed a great sax solo on the track, comparable in my opinion with his solo on 'True', and anyone who is interested in hearing this can find the song here:

http://www.themusichutch.com/listen-song/christian-fontana-featuring-steve-norman-on-saxophone-a-night-like-this-barratfontana/28221/

p.s. I actually recorded two songs with Steve (with him playing another great solo), the second one being here:

http://www.themusichutch.com/listen-...fontana/28222/

Impressive stuff David. Hats off to you. And thats a compliment from a progressive rock fan whose favourite songs tend to have 20 minute keyboard solo’s in them played by a man in a luminous cape

[Ozzy]

David....

I have to say I am with Mike on his argument... but I am with you on Spandau Ballet (but as far as early electronic musicians go Bill Nelson was FAR BETTER!!)...so see...we can all be friends!!!

I must say....I would love to read the Spandau Ballet book.. but unavailable here thru amazon

Steadmund Brand

Bill Nelson. I haven't heard that name for years. Never got into Be Bop Deluxe or Red Noise myself. I see he's still going strong though which is good to see.

Stockhausen surely? if you're after early electronic music.
Actually, I've listened to it but find it's more something you listen to once to experience, and that's it.

Personally I enjoy Can and Neu the most from that period. Post punk brought some interesting stuff around 1978-80. The prog new wave of Magazine I enjoy. Around that time I thought it's good to see men have stopped dressing up so ridiculously after the glam era. But then came new romantic and it all started again.

Rant over. The normal rants can continue.

[Abby Normal]

Hi Abby,

No, I'm not on the track at all - am very much a non-performing songwriter. Have learnt to play chords on a keyboard (which is how I now write songs) but that's the extent of my musical ability.

Thank you for ordering my book, I do hope you enjoy it!

Thanks. Great chillax songs by the way.

[David Orsam]

Impressive stuff David. Hats off to you. And thats a compliment from a progressive rock fan whose favourite songs tend to have 20 minute keyboard solo’s in them played by a man in a luminous cape

Thank you Herlock!

[David Orsam]

Thanks. Great chillax songs by the way.

Thanks Abby.

[Robert]

Very nice songs, David.

[GUT]

You might be able to Stead but happily Dale (the Van Gogh man) is having to try to raise money to get his nonsense published because no one with a brain will touch it with a barge pole. I believe 100% in freedom of speech (without exception) but its incumbent on people to show ethical judgement. The fact that van Gogh was in France at the time of the murders and utterly penniless should deter anyone from a character assassination but sadly its not the case. Likewise the Doyle book. An author that we know so much about. A particular hero of mine as you might guess from my name. As you will know, there is not a single, solitary smidgeon of evidence again him and yet the character assassination went on. Its very, very sad what people will do for nothing other than cash or five minutes of infamy.

He got a hundred or two pledged on Kickstarter then it died the death it deserved.

[Herlock Sholmes]

He got a hundred or two pledged on Kickstarter then it died the death it deserved.

200 idiots pledged $1 each

[Abby Normal]

I look forward to reading the Mikes book on this fascinating individual. I have also been meaning to read Prince of Quacks, which as I understand it is the essential book on Tumblety??

I have always considered T as a viable ripper suspect but only slightly.

IMHO he was way too ostentatious and dosnt fit any of the witness descriptions (some of whom I'm sure saw the ripper).

Plus he was gay correct? if that's an undisputed fact than hes probably out in my view.

that being said I understand there are some new significant finds by Mike, including evidence of knives and surgical tools owned by T, which is pretty big IMHO.

congrats on your research and book Mike.

[Steadmund Brand]

I look forward to reading the Mikes book on this fascinating individual. I have also been meaning to read Prince of Quacks, which as I understand it is the essential book on Tumblety??

I have always considered T as a viable ripper suspect but only slightly.

IMHO he was way too ostentatious and dosnt fit any of the witness descriptions (some of whom I'm sure saw the ripper).

Plus he was gay correct? if that's an undisputed fact than hes probably out in my view.

that being said I understand there are some new significant finds by Mike, including evidence of knives and surgical tools owned by T, which is pretty big IMHO.

congrats on your research and book Mike.

Well, Prince of Quacks WAS the essential book on Tumblety, until Mike wrote The Ripper Haunts and now Jack The Ripper Suspect Dr. Francis Tumblety...Prince was a great starting point, but so much has been uncovered since then (and several things in Prince proven to be not true, in my opinion in no fault of the author, just additional info has surfaced since it was written).

As far as Tumblety being homosexual...yes (and no, you have to read the book to understand....but we can say he only liked sex with men). and also, his sexuality only excludes him if these were sexually motivated crimes (where Mike makes the argument that they were not....I didn't buy into that when I first heard it either but digging more deep, I believe he is correct.. you have to read it!)

Steadmund Brand

[David Orsam]

Very nice songs, David.

Thank you very much Robert.

[David Orsam]

As I still don't know Mr Hawley's opinion regarding the proposed deployment of 12 constables at two London railway stations and its connection with Tumblety, and, as he is apparently planning a third book about Tumblety, I feel it necessary to go right back to the beginning, in order to try and convince him that the idea was initially raised long before the Ripper murders and the arrest of Tumblety, starting with the full text of the letter from Richard Prowse, Secretary of the Board of Customs, to the Home Office dated 22 March 1888. This is that letter (with some minor transcript corrections against the extract previously posted):

Sir,

I am desired to acquaint you, for the information of Secretary of State for the Home Department, that the Board of Customs have under their consideration an application from the London and North Western Railway Company requesting that the Baggage of Passengers arriving at Liverpool from America and proceeding over that company's line to London may, if registered for London, be sent thither from Liverpool, in locked vans and undergo the requisite customs examination at the Euston Square Terminus in London; and that there is reason to believe that an application to the same effect will be received from the Midland Railway Company with respect to the Baggage of Passengers from America who may come to London by that company's line to St Pancras Terminus.

So far as this Department is concerned, the Board think it may be possible to meet the wishes of these companies, under arrangements similar to those by which the examination of registered Baggage from the continent, via Folkestone and Dover, is now, and has for many years been, allowed to be examined at the Charing Cross and Victoria Termini, in place of at the Ports of arrival, but before giving a definite reply to that effect the Board think it right to consult the Secretary of State for the Home Department on the subject, in view of the frequent correspondence (of which the letters from this Department of the 13th ultimo No.2732/1888 and the 17th instant No. 8294/1888, are recent instances) between the Home Office and the Customs, as to the possibility of the introduction into the United Kingdom by means of Passengers’ Baggage, and especially of the Baggage of Passengers from America, of articles of a dangerous or explosive character.

I am to add that the measure of the degree of risk on these accounts, as between Baggage from the near Continental Ports under present arrangements, and that from American Ports under proposed arrangements, would appear to turn:

(1) On the greater length of the Railway journey from Liverpool to London as compared with the journey from Folkestone or Dover to London.

(2) On the probability that Passengers from America would bring a larger number of packages, per Passenger, than those coming from the near Continental Ports.

I am,

Sir,

Your obedient servant,

[Signed R.T. Prowse]

[David Orsam]

The letter from the Board of Customs of 22 March was forwarded by the Home Office to Assistant Commissioner James Monro at Scotland Yard who wrote to the Under Secretary of State at the Home Office on 2 April 1888 as follows (the square brackets are in the original):

Sir,

With reference to your Correspondence No. A48584 herewith returned, - I have the honour to acquaint you in reply, that so far as Police action in connection with the importation of Explosives is concerned, I hardly think the system would be worth the expense to which it would lead. If it was considered necessary that Police should be present [as in the case of the Continental Trains] - at the examination of baggage, this could not be effected without employing a considerable number of Constables owing to the large passenger traffic at different railway termini.

I do not think that the results likely to follow from the adoption of the system would justify me in recommending such expense to be incurred.

I have the honour to be,

Sir,

Your obedient servant,

[Signed: J. Monro]

[David Orsam]

Following Monro's rejection of the idea, on 20 April 1888 Edward Leigh Pemberton at the Home Office wrote to the Secretary of the Board of Customs as follows:

Sir,

I am directed by the Secretary of State to inform you that he has had under his careful consideration your letter of the 22nd ultimo, No. 8484, as to the application for the examination at London of the baggage of passengers arriving at Liverpool from America and proceeding by the London and North Western Railway to the Euston Square terminus; and that having conferred with Mr. Monro on the subject he sees strong objections to the arrangement proposed by the Railway Company.

I am,

Sir,

Your obedient servant,

[Signed: E. Leigh Pemberton]

[David Orsam]

Following receipt of the negative letter from the Home Office of 20 April, Richard Prowse of the Board of Customs wrote to the General Manager of the London & North Western Railway at Euston Station on 24 April 1888 as follows:

Sir,

With reference to the letter from this Department of the 22nd ultimo and previous correspondence on the subject of the proposal of the London and North Western Railway Company to establish a system of through conveyance of baggage from the United States and Canada to London via Liverpool, I am directed by the Board of Customs to acquaint you that they deemed it necessary to consult the Secretary of State for the Home Department in relation to the proposed change and that they have now received a reply to the effect that strong objections to the arrangement are entertained by the Chief Officers of the Detective Police. Under these circumstances no further steps can be taken in this matter.

I am,

Sir,

Your obedient servant,

[Signed: R.T. Prowse]