Ripper Confidential by Tom Wescott (2017)

[Dane_F]

I am decidedly late to this, I realize, but after anxiously awaiting Tom's book for so long I am now thoroughly enjoying it.

Thank you Tom. As always your style is one that causes me to think harder on subjects and question things that I assumed were settled. Really, that is the greatest accomplishment someone can have.

Might I ask, have you done any press for this book or interviews or anything? I quite enjoyed listening to the podcasts and interviews that came out around the time of The Bank Holiday Murders release.

[Tom_Wescott]

I am decidedly late to this, I realize, but after anxiously awaiting Tom's book for so long I am now thoroughly enjoying it.

Thank you Tom. As always your style is one that causes me to think harder on subjects and question things that I assumed were settled. Really, that is the greatest accomplishment someone can have.

Might I ask, have you done any press for this book or interviews or anything? I quite enjoyed listening to the podcasts and interviews that came out around the time of The Bank Holiday Murders release.

Dane! Great to see you. You're not late to anything. I'm pretty sure the case ain't getting any colder. I haven't yet done any podcasts but I've got a bunch coming up. I'm hoping for two episodes of Rippercast and MAYBE another with a debate between myself and Ed Stow, if enough people are interested in hearing it. Aside from that there'll be a bunch of others I'll post about as they happen. I GREATLY appreciate you reading the book and taking the time to post about it.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fisherman]

When have you known me to invest too much in anyone's thinking? Aside from Debs, of course.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

I´ve known you to invest too much in the thinking of the anonymous poster who told you that you had wrath coming your way from my side, making you react by calling Edward my master.
Otherwise, no - you normally stand on your own two feet, right or wrong.

[Tom_Wescott]

I´ve known you to invest too much in the thinking of the anonymous poster who told you that you had wrath coming your way from my side, making you react by calling Edward my master.
Otherwise, no - you normally stand on your own two feet, right or wrong.

No, I just didn't know you read this thread, so I was talking some s**t about you. Let it go. People like to say a certain researcher does all my work for me. You think that bothers me? It's cute! And what's this 'right or wrong' business? What's this obsession everyone has with me having to be wrong? Is it the end of the world or something if you're wrong? Is that why everyone plays it so damn safe? If I could say one thing to Ripperology it's stop taking yourself so seriously and have fun with it. When it's not boring it IS fun you know.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Dane_F]

Dane! Great to see you. You're not late to anything. I'm pretty sure the case ain't getting any colder. I haven't yet done any podcasts but I've got a bunch coming up. I'm hoping for two episodes of Rippercast and MAYBE another with a debate between myself and Ed Stow, if enough people are interested in hearing it. Aside from that there'll be a bunch of others I'll post about as they happen. I GREATLY appreciate you reading the book and taking the time to post about it.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

This is great news, please keep us updated on when these podcasts take place.

As far as your book goes, there's something about your writing style that makes it easy to read and hard to put down. I was thinking about this last night as I read. Maybe it's because your book is broken up more into essay form than one long narrative. Whatever the reason, don't lose this style as it's very refreshing after reading so many that I have to will myself to finish.


Just some interesting tidbits that I mused over while reading:

4 murders, 2 buildings next to each other, 9 months. After reading this over and over it finally clicked that this sounded similar to me from another series of murders I'm interested in: The Jeff Davis 8. These were a group of women all murdered over the course of a couple years, all lived in the same town, all were either friends with each other or at least knew each other, the most likely suspect knew them all and had a reason for specifically killing them (still unsolved), there's a tale of police corruption or possible involvement. Basically it just drove home the point that maybe there was a reason these 4 were specifically targeted by Jack. Could have been as simple as he knew they would be easy pickings.

Your description of the events as they happened in Bucks Row finally cleared it up for me. Especially in regards to the carmen and Mizen and the "lie". Very well done though I'm sure some will argue this point to death and say you've got it wrong.

Polly Nichols as a potential police informant. I found this brief point as a, hmm, that would be interesting. Of course we can't speak in definitives but that would make 2 of the murdered people that were rumored to potentially be police informants right?

Still so interesting is this case even after all these years. Anyway, excuse my rambling. Thank you again Tom.

[The Station Cat]

This is great news, please keep us updated on when these podcasts take place.

As far as your book goes, there's something about your writing style that makes it easy to read and hard to put down. I was thinking about this last night as I read. Maybe it's because your book is broken up more into essay form than one long narrative. Whatever the reason, don't lose this style as it's very refreshing after reading so many that I have to will myself to finish.

I couldn't agree more!!!! Having just finished part 1 can't wait start reading part 2.

[Dane_F]

I couldn't agree more!!!! Having just finished part 1 can't wait start reading part 2.

Yes indeed.

The introduction of Margret Millous is the most captivating piece of JTR research I've read since Tom did it in his previous book with Pearly Poll. The implications of what it would mean, if what Tom suggests is true, are astounding.

[Tom_Wescott]

This is great news, please keep us updated on when these podcasts take place.

As far as your book goes, there's something about your writing style that makes it easy to read and hard to put down. I was thinking about this last night as I read. Maybe it's because your book is broken up more into essay form than one long narrative. Whatever the reason, don't lose this style as it's very refreshing after reading so many that I have to will myself to finish.

Dane, I'm delighted you like the format of Ripper Confidential. I doubt I'll use this format again in a Ripper book, though never say never. My next book will be in a different format than the previous two though. My reasoning for it this time was simple - I wanted to write only about the particular areas of the case that most interest me, without having to feel obligated to shorten the length of them in order to bring in all the other stuff that most of my readers would already know anyways.

Just some interesting tidbits that I mused over while reading:

4 murders, 2 buildings next to each other, 9 months. After reading this over and over it finally clicked that this sounded similar to me from another series of murders I'm interested in: The Jeff Davis 8. These were a group of women all murdered over the course of a couple years, all lived in the same town, all were either friends with each other or at least knew each other, the most likely suspect knew them all and had a reason for specifically killing them (still unsolved), there's a tale of police corruption or possible involvement. Basically it just drove home the point that maybe there was a reason these 4 were specifically targeted by Jack. Could have been as simple as he knew they would be easy pickings.

The Jeff Davis 8 case sounds familiar to me, but what you describe is so intriguing I'm going to have to look it up and reacquaint myself with it.

Your description of the events as they happened in Bucks Row finally cleared it up for me. Especially in regards to the carmen and Mizen and the "lie". Very well done though I'm sure some will argue this point to death and say you've got it wrong.

LOL. You think?

Polly Nichols as a potential police informant. I found this brief point as a, hmm, that would be interesting. Of course we can't speak in definitives but that would make 2 of the murdered people that were rumored to potentially be police informants right?

Still so interesting is this case even after all these years. Anyway, excuse my rambling. Thank you again Tom.

Regarding Polly being a police informant, I'm sure some will say that I think she was an informant simply because I mention it as a possibility in my book. I don't. But it is a possibility. I think Pearly Poll and other people in similar circumstances who pop up here and there were police informants, so why not one or more of the victims?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

Yes indeed.

The introduction of Margret Millous is the most captivating piece of JTR research I've read since Tom did it in his previous book with Pearly Poll. The implications of what it would mean, if what Tom suggests is true, are astounding.

Thanks for that. 90% of the people currently in the Ripper scene will not be able to adjust their thinking in order to accept Millous might have been a Ripper victim. I knew that when I was writing it. But it's for the next generation to take on board and follow up. Maybe the one after that. I may be way off base in my thinking and if so I hope someone will find that out. But it seems extremely logical to me.

In the hours just before the murder of Polly Nichols we have a screaming woman running through Brady Street, the screams were said to have began from about the place a bloody handprint was found. Around the same time Margaret Millous checks into London Hospital for a serious cut to her arm. So serious she remains in hospital for 2 weeks. Reports then start appearing in papers of a potential Ripper victim who survived. All the pieces fit perfectly and present the start of a picture, but since not all the pieces are there it's not a complete picture an I might be seeing a dinosaur where in fact there's only a frog.

As I mention in my book, there is a LOT of material in existence that has not been collected in a digital database yet but one day will be. So, I think it's good that all this stuff get out there into the conscious of people who are or one day will be researching the case so that when they come across items they'll be able to recognize the significance of this. I've no doubt we've not heard the last of Margaret Millous.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Dane_F]

Tom,

The Jeff Davis 8 really is an interesting case. If I might suggest a starting point that really lays out the details of the case it would be this one: https://medium.com/matter/who-killed...8-d1b813e13581

There are some similarities that I can see between this and JTR that might also scratch the same itch for you and give you a chance to stretch the same muscles but get a break from constant JTR research.


The Police informant point I completely agree with. There's no way of knowing if it's true nor can we really determine what the implications would be, if any, even if they were true. It is something that makes you go, "That's interesting to think about".

. . .Which is really what makes Margret Millous such a huge and wonderful revelation of research. Here you have actual evidence that points to the potential of a failed attack, not just randomly on some night in some area, but on the same night and in the same area as someone that WAS murdered by JTR.

The implications of what this means, the thought that the first double event might actually involve Nichols and an until now unknown victim, I mean wow. This is good stuff and yet it's a shame because so many will dismiss it off hand without giving it the proper attention it deserves.

Your talk of a next generation of Ripper researchers is both heartening and saddening as well. The vast amount of knowledge that the "old timers" possess would be so helpful in new research, yet I feel most of the most knowledgeable people are also the most stuck in their way and unwilling to budge. Still, a new generation might be exactly what is needed to breathe life back into this case.

Count yourself among them Tom. Or maybe, even more importantly you will serve as a bridge between the two.

[Fisherman]

No, I just didn't know you read this thread, so I was talking some s**t about you. Let it go. People like to say a certain researcher does all my work for me. You think that bothers me? It's cute! And what's this 'right or wrong' business? What's this obsession everyone has with me having to be wrong? Is it the end of the world or something if you're wrong? Is that why everyone plays it so damn safe? If I could say one thing to Ripperology it's stop taking yourself so seriously and have fun with it. When it's not boring it IS fun you know.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Publically talking **** about people when you think they cannot hear it is not my idea of fun, I´m afraid.
If you think I am obsessed with you having to be wrong, you may need to read my post again - what I said was that you stand on your own two feet in Ripperology regardless if you are right or wrong. That does not amount to much of an obsession, does it?
I´m all for having fun with my ripperology, as it happens - but having fun with ripperology is not the same as making fun of it.

[Sam Flynn]

Hello Tom

Thanks for that. 90% of the people currently in the Ripper scene will not be able to adjust their thinking in order to accept Millous might have been a Ripper victim.

I guess I'm one of the 10% who does accept that possibility, and Millous is certainly a very interesting find.

[Tom_Wescott]

Tom,

The Jeff Davis 8 really is an interesting case. If I might suggest a starting point that really lays out the details of the case it would be this one: https://medium.com/matter/who-killed...8-d1b813e13581

There are some similarities that I can see between this and JTR that might also scratch the same itch for you and give you a chance to stretch the same muscles but get a break from constant JTR research.


The Police informant point I completely agree with. There's no way of knowing if it's true nor can we really determine what the implications would be, if any, even if they were true. It is something that makes you go, "That's interesting to think about".

. . .Which is really what makes Margret Millous such a huge and wonderful revelation of research. Here you have actual evidence that points to the potential of a failed attack, not just randomly on some night in some area, but on the same night and in the same area as someone that WAS murdered by JTR.

The implications of what this means, the thought that the first double event might actually involve Nichols and an until now unknown victim, I mean wow. This is good stuff and yet it's a shame because so many will dismiss it off hand without giving it the proper attention it deserves.

Your talk of a next generation of Ripper researchers is both heartening and saddening as well. The vast amount of knowledge that the "old timers" possess would be so helpful in new research, yet I feel most of the most knowledgeable people are also the most stuck in their way and unwilling to budge. Still, a new generation might be exactly what is needed to breathe life back into this case.

Count yourself among them Tom. Or maybe, even more importantly you will serve as a bridge between the two.

I don't like to generalize people, so I won't, because there are wonderful exceptions. But yes, a lot of the more old school Ripperologists seem to be rather stuck in the mid-90s as regards their thinking of the case. They'll gleefully accept new details about people, places and things, but would prefer their overall understanding of the case not be significantly modified. It was settled within the first handful of books that they read and won't change. I'm not sure if that's 'unfortunate' as you say or if it's just human nature, but it is what it is. And most Ripper books are written for and by that crowd. Some are damn good and I use them. But it does get stale, so I think it's time for next level stuff.

Ripperology isn't going away. That's a fact. Some day my books won't be considered 'new' and young people will view them as almost contemporaneous to Begg, Sugden, et al and will consider them in tandem with them, instead of 20 years later. That's when I expect the work will be taken more seriously. It's extremely gratifying to see so many 'get it' in the here and now.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

Publically talking **** about people when you think they cannot hear it is not my idea of fun, I´m afraid.
If you think I am obsessed with you having to be wrong, you may need to read my post again - what I said was that you stand on your own two feet in Ripperology regardless if you are right or wrong. That does not amount to much of an obsession, does it?
I´m all for having fun with my ripperology, as it happens - but having fun with ripperology is not the same as making fun of it.

Fish, my last post to you was more of a general rant and not intended for you to take personally. But you don't take yourself just a wee bit seriously. And I do not make fun of Ripperology. Satirize it and myself occasionally, but I never disrespect it.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

Hello Tom
I guess I'm one of the 10% who does accept that possibility, and Millous is certainly a very interesting find.

Color me shocked but genuinely pleased to read this!

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott