Prisoner 4374

[Amanda]

Thanks Amanda.

The reason I asked, I came across a press article from Sept. 1895, that recalls a friend of Matilda Clover, known as "Fred". The article mentions some confusion between the features of Neil Cream, and this "Fred".
There is also a recollection of an older interview with Ex-Detective-Sergeant M'Intyre, who shortly after Creams execution says he met a man who was Cream's double in Kentish Town.

I was under the impression the suggestion of Cream having and using a double was quite late in origin, more an attempt to create a conspiracy than portray a fact.

Hi Jon,
Yes, you're right there was confusion. 'Fred' was actually the father of Matilda Clover's baby & Cream was mistakenly identified as him by Lucy Rose the housemaid at Clover's lodging house (she saw him late at night in a stairwell leaving the building)at the initial police enquiry.
However, when Lucy Rose actually saw Cream in daylight at his trial, she was unable to positively identify him.

As for McIntyre's interview, the description he gave actually resembled Cream as he was before his incarceration at Joliet. During his sentence, Cream's physique deteriorated a great deal & he looked little like his former self.
Now, to add mystery, there WAS a gentleman living not too far away who DID look like Cream in his younger days....but that's for another day.....
Amanda

[Wickerman]

Hi Jon,
The rumours didn't start until years later, when Sir Edward Marshal Hall claimed (in his memoirs) that he defended Cream on a bigamy charge.
Hall stated that Cream had used a double to serve his time in Joliet. He also said that Cream was acquitted on the bigamy charge as he was serving time in an Australian prison.
Funnily enough the title for my book was originally going to be 'Double Cream'.
As I dug deeper however, I found that Cream had never set foot in Australia.

Sorry about the wait for my book release date, hope you feel it's worth it
Amanda

Amanda

Thanks Amanda.

The reason I asked, I came across a press article from Sept. 1895, that recalls a friend of Matilda Clover, known as "Fred". The article mentions some confusion between the features of Neil Cream, and this "Fred".
There is also a recollection of an older interview with Ex-Detective-Sergeant M'Intyre, who shortly after Creams execution says he met a man who was Cream's double in Kentish Town.

I was under the impression the suggestion of Cream having and using a double was quite late in origin, more an attempt to create a conspiracy than portray a fact.

[Amanda]

I doubt I will be in London in that period. Thanks, though, for the information. Don't suppose they are giving free samples of strychnine?

Only if you're a good thief! Cream's medical bag has all the vials intact, except for one........so who do you think he used that one on?????

Amanda

[Mayerling]

For anyone interested, the Museum of London are hosting an exhibition of the Black Museum collection. Many of you will know that these articles haven't been on public display before.
The exhibition will run from mid-October to April 2016 & items include the medical bag owned by Dr.Cream.

Amanda

I doubt I will be in London in that period. Thanks, though, for the information. Don't suppose they are giving free samples of strychnine?

[GUT]

Next time I'm down under I'll bring you a copy Gut

Amanda

Oh I'll eventually get it don't worry about that.

[Amanda]

Yeah, but try and get a special order through our local library.

Next time I'm down under I'll bring you a copy Gut

Amanda

[GUT]

There, there. GUT, I'm sure even Australia has libraries...

Yeah, but try and get a special order through our local library.

[Pcdunn]

Just letting off steam, seems every time I want a book it's not available here and sometimes t just gets to ya.

There, there. GUT, I'm sure even Australia has libraries...

[Amanda]

For anyone interested, the Museum of London are hosting an exhibition of the Black Museum collection. Many of you will know that these articles haven't been on public display before.
The exhibition will run from mid-October to April 2016 & items include the medical bag owned by Dr.Cream.

Amanda

[Amanda]

Good enough Amanda.
In all fairness to your hard work, I don't think anyone here is expecting you to give away critical details.

I think $29 is a bargain for 10 years of your life

It's the 3 weeks we still have to wait for publication....


By the way, if this is not a critical detail, do you happen to know when rumors first appeared that Neil Cream had a double?

Hi Jon,
The rumours didn't start until years later, when Sir Edward Marshal Hall claimed (in his memoirs) that he defended Cream on a bigamy charge.
Hall stated that Cream had used a double to serve his time in Joliet. He also said that Cream was acquitted on the bigamy charge as he was serving time in an Australian prison.
Funnily enough the title for my book was originally going to be 'Double Cream'.
As I dug deeper however, I found that Cream had never set foot in Australia.

Sorry about the wait for my book release date, hope you feel it's worth it
Amanda

Amanda

[Wickerman]

Hi Jon,
The article from Rev. Merrick's memoirs appeared in 1895 - Cream was executed in 1892. I think there is a wide margin for exaggeration and error given the timeline.
To the best of my knowledge I know how many women Cream murdered and when and have recounted the circumstances in my book. It was not 35.

As for the dates of Cream's incarceration - the 'Commutation of Sentence' certificate, signed by the a Governor, is one of the images in the book.
It clearly shows the date of his release.
Amanda

Good enough Amanda.
In all fairness to your hard work, I don't think anyone here is expecting you to give away critical details.

I think $29 is a bargain for 10 years of your life

It's the 3 weeks we still have to wait for publication....


By the way, if this is not a critical detail, do you happen to know when rumors first appeared that Neil Cream had a double?

[Amanda]

Hi PM.

I had read somewhere, perhaps Rumbelow?, that Cream's incarceration had been confirmed even in a letter written by Cream himself.

There is an account in the press which suggests just how much of a killer Cream was.

"Let me tell you something of the fearful ferocity of Neil Cream. That man committed more murders than any other criminal I have met in my experience as a prison chaplain. The outside world believe that he murdered only one or two women. Why, on the murder roll of that terrible criminal are the names of 35 women!
He murdered each one in cold blood."
Rev. G.P. Merrick, Chaplain Holloway Gaol.
Wells Journal, 18 July, 1895.

Hi Jon,
The article from Rev. Merrick's memoirs appeared in 1895 - Cream was executed in 1892. I think there is a wide margin for exaggeration and error given the timeline.
To the best of my knowledge I know how many women Cream murdered and when and have recounted the circumstances in my book. It was not 35.

As for the dates of Cream's incarceration - the 'Commutation of Sentence' certificate, signed by the a Governor, is one of the images in the book.
It clearly shows the date of his release.
Amanda

[Amanda]

Let's just wait and see if we can place him near the murder scenes if we can then it is definitely game on!exciting times await us.

Perhaps you're jumping the gun Pinkmoon (& Wickerman).

I DO reveal exactly WHERE Cream was in 1888, but what you haven't considered is the knowledge he held regarding other Ripper suspects.
There were prominent people petitioning for his release from Joliet right from the start of his incarceration, why?
Enough said for now, read carefully & remember, this is a work that has taken years of research. I have Cream's complete and very extensive file from Joliet and have even used some of his own words to detail the crimes.
He was a complex man with complex issues.
Amanda

[pinkmoon]

Hi PM.

I had read somewhere, perhaps Rumbelow?, that Cream's incarceration had been confirmed even in a letter written by Cream himself.

There is an account in the press which suggests just how much of a killer Cream was.

"Let me tell you something of the fearful ferocity of Neil Cream. That man committed more murders than any other criminal I have met in my experience as a prison chaplain. The outside world believe that he murdered only one or two women. Why, on the murder roll of that terrible criminal are the names of 35 women!
He murdered each one in cold blood."
Rev. G.P. Merrick, Chaplain Holloway Gaol.
Wells Journal, 18 July, 1895.

Let's just wait and see if we can place him near the murder scenes if we can then it is definitely game on!exciting times await us.

[Wickerman]

Hi PM.

I had read somewhere, perhaps Rumbelow?, that Cream's incarceration had been confirmed even in a letter written by Cream himself.

There is an account in the press which suggests just how much of a killer Cream was.

"Let me tell you something of the fearful ferocity of Neil Cream. That man committed more murders than any other criminal I have met in my experience as a prison chaplain. The outside world believe that he murdered only one or two women. Why, on the murder roll of that terrible criminal are the names of 35 women!
He murdered each one in cold blood."
Rev. G.P. Merrick, Chaplain Holloway Gaol.
Wells Journal, 18 July, 1895.