JtR show on Discovery Channel tonight

[Pontius2000]

in America, 9:00pm eastern standard time. the show is called "Jack The Ripper: The New Evidence". it is from 2009 but I have not seen it.

[corey123]

Thanks for this Pontius.

[Pinkerton]

Just finished watching it. It focuses on Robert Mann the mortuary attendant. Very unconvincing. He supposedly killed Tabram through McKenzie. The theory put forward was that by the McKenzie murder Mann's physical condition had deteriorated so much that he could not MANAGE to mutilate McKenzie like the rest. Mann supposedly died of tuberculosis in 1896.

The documentary made the claim that there are TWO geographical "hot spots"--the Flower and Dean area AND the area near the mortuary where Mann worked. It also claimed that Mann was present when ALL of the bodies from Tabram to McKenzie were brought to the mortuary. This is the first time I have heard such a claim and have no idea if it is true or not. It also made the point that a mortuary attendant would have the perfect job to have access to chemicals to preserve the Lusk kidney such as the "spirits of wine" (ethanol) that the kidney was said to have been preserved in.

[sdreid]

I thought it was better than the average although the suspect is no better nor worse than a hundred others. The claim actually was that he stabbed Tabram after he found her already murdered, presumably by the soldier.

The recreations were first rate although I wish they'd have let the actors say something. Maybe they couldn't afford to pay them that much. Instead, we get too much of the presenter on all his walkabouts.

It made some interesting points to me but the GSG and corresponding apron got not a mention.

Craig Rice tried to blame a morticians assistant for the Black Dahlia murder so I guess they are tagged suspects. To me, it would seem they could get all the mutilation satisfaction they needed at their work, that is, if that was their inclination.

My view.

[Pontius2000]

well, I doubt seriously that Mann was JtR. but here's the "evidence":

1. He lived at the workhouse right in the middle of the killing zone. that much, I agree with for JtR. I believe JtR DID reside somewhere within for very near that zone.
2. He was accustomed to dealing with dead bodies. ok, maybe. though I'm more inclined to believe JtR was a butcher or hunter.
3. He handled the bodies of 4 of the victims....Tabram, Nichols, Chapman, and McKenzie (the program does not suggest that Stride, Eddowes, or Kelly were taken to Mann's mortuary).
4. the kidney in the spirits of wine...Mann had access to spirits of wine.

but then, there are the things 'against' him being JtR:

1. as far as I know, these workhouse inmates were not allowed to go and come as the please at all hours of the day and night.
2. he lived 8 more years, at liberty, after the murders. I highly doubt that JtR lived a peaceful life, in freedom, without committing more murders. I imagine he was either incarcerated or dead.
3. Regarding the kidney in 'spirits of wine', and the "From Hell" letter....is it known or even believed that Mann was even literate? I honestly don't know the answer. but it doesn't seem to me that a lowly inmate would even know how to write a letter.


alas, I think the main reason he is thrown out there is that he was an attendant who was actually named. surely, there were other un-named mortuary attendants who could've been just as likely to be JtR.

as far as circumstantial evidence goes, he fits just as much as a suspect as several of the other 'known' suspects. but again, I don't think JtR lived in peace and freedom for another 8 years and therefore I don't think Mann was JtR.

[Pontius2000]

also, the guy in the program, Mei Trow. is he the guy who posted here with the username "Septic Blue"?? I found that user's research regarding the geo profiling VERY interesting. does he even post here anymore? I think he may have had a falling out with somebody on this board.

[The Grave Maurice]

Nope, they're two completely different guys, Pont. Trow lives on the Isle of Wight and SB lives (I think) in Florida. Both are very bright, prolific contributors to our subject. And you're right, something put SB off this site and I believe, when he isn't watching Chelsea play footie, he posts only on JTRForums.

[Monty]

also, the guy in the program, Mei Trow. is he the guy who posted here with the username "Septic Blue"?? I found that user's research regarding the geo profiling VERY interesting. does he even post here anymore? I think he may have had a falling out with somebody on this board.

Heh, the two would raise a smile over that.

Septic Blue is indeed Colin Roberts, who has put up a strong arguement against Mei's suspect of Mann.

Basically they are in polar camps regarding Mann.

Incidently, those eagle eyed viewers may have noted a Mr John Bennett in the doc, the same Mr Bennett who frequents these boards when time permits, and the drive behind our wiki site.

Monty

[Pinkerton]

Thanks for the corrections. I missed parts of it including the first 15 minutes.

Please explain to me Mann's connection to the mortuary. Did he work there as a consequence of his workhouse "duties" or was this just an independent job he held? Also did they mention whether Mann had a criminal record or not?

I can't say I have EVER heard of a case where someone got murdered and then a second unrelated person came up and took part in mutilating the victim. Sounds like a pretty oddball theory to me!

[Abby Normal]

Hello
I saw it also. IMHO it was OK, but I had a hard time beleiveing that the reason why McKenzies wounds were not as"bad" as the previous was because he was suffering from TB and was not able enough. Also, the theory that he came upon the already Murdered Tabram and proceeded to stab her was preety far fetched. Agree with the poster on too much time spent on Trow's walkabouts-pretty irrelevant.

I liked the overall theory however, and think that Mann or someone like him, could fit the bill, especially the the fact that as a mortuary assistant he might have had some anatomical knowledge but little surgical skill, but perhaps enough of both to pull it off. And also thought it was beleiveable that he could have(or someone like him) sent the From Hell letter/kidney to Lusk.

I also did not buy the idea he killed some specifically in his mortuaries 'jurisdiction' just so the bodies would end up again in his wheelhouse. I think JtR just killed where ever the opportunity arouse.

Did Trow come up with Mann on his own, or had Mann been previously put out there as a suspect?

[Esther Wilson]

Saw this post too late. I hope they play it again sometime on a channel that my area can get.

[Ron Beckett]

Finally shown in Oz in 2013.

They showed it on the History channel in Australia last night. It may have been on the Discovery Channel earlier, but I haven't noticed it.

It had 2010 in roman numerals at the end if anyone goes in search of it. I agree with what most posts have said about the show, nothing really inspiring but added some knowledge of the inquest he appeared at.