James Mason Whitechapel Film?

[tnb]

Thought this was as well on here as on a seperate 'London Nobody Knows' thread. I am sure someone can answer this fairly simply, perhaps those like Richard who have been walking the area since before all the modern-day changes.

In the Whitechapel/ Spitalfields section, at the start of that section, when Mason is saying 'Spitalfields is Jack the Ripper country...etc' what is that large empty space he is walking through? I am guessing it is part of the old market, but can't quite place it from any photographs. It almost looks like the 'lorry park' era Dorset/ Durward St as shown in the famous photo of a group of boys playing street football, but not quite. And am I right in thinking that was opened after TLNK anyway?

It will be of very little use to anyone, but it is one of those irritating little details. If anyone can throw some light on the location and also its modern day status that would be very much appreciated.

[Andrew Firth]

Trevor,

The space that James Mason is passing through is the back yard of number 29 Hanbury Street where Annie Chapman was murdered. In the background are the back yards for numbers 27, 25 etc.

It should be noted that James' omnipresent umbrella points to the wrong spot, and the cut-away to the dog adds to the mis-information, and makes the viewer think Annie was found on eastern side of the stairs, (as opposed to the western side next to the fence).

All the best
Andrew

[tnb]

Trevor,

The space that James Mason is passing through is the back yard of number 29 Hanbury Street where Annie Chapman was murdered. In the background are the back yards for numbers 27, 25 etc.

It should be noted that James' omnipresent umbrella points to the wrong spot, and the cut-away to the dog adds to the mis-information, and makes the viewer think Annie was found on eastern side of the stairs, (as opposed to the western side next to the fence).

All the best
Andrew

Thanks Andrew - but the scene I am referring to is before Mason goes to Hanbury St. Perhaps I got the script wrong and that phrase is over the Hanbury St section; unfortunately I don't have the DVD to hand to check (this is why I hate lending people stuff!), nor to try and do some kind of fancy screen-capture thing (although it would probably prove beyond me!). I am trying to find the appropriate section on youtube - watch this space, as they say.

[Andrew Firth]

Not sure which bit you mean then Trevor. Certainly the part where he says that "Spitalfields is Jack the Ripper territory..." is where he's walking across the back yard of number 29.

All the best
Andrew

[tnb]

Found the DVD - and there I was blaming someone for not giving it back to me...

I had indeed got the script wrong. It is straight after Mason leaves the Jewish grocers, and the voiceover runs 'Spitalfields, in the East End, was a long time ago an area for the prosperous. Now it's mainly for the poor', as we watch a man scavenging in what looks like market rubbish in a huge open area, immediately before the famous Hanbury Street 'can I come in' scene.

Hope that makes it a bit clearer what section I'm on about!

edit - It is also the same place at which the film ends, with the 'the end is nigh' man.

edit again - this scene:

(breaking all sorts of copyright rules no doubt)

[Andrew Firth]

I've never been totally sure of where that end sequence was shot from, but on page 37 of "The Jack the Ripper Location Photographs" by Philip Hutchinson, it's somewhere around Spitalfields Market and Folgate Street.

Perhaps John Bennett or Rob Clack may be able to assist further on this?

Andrew

[Rob Clack]

They are definitely Spitialfields Market. Most of these buildings were still there in 1986 when I walked around for the first time.

This is about the junction with Spital Square


The building on the corner I am fairly certain was on the corner of Spital Square


This one from the end credits might give a better indication of the layout. This is looking North from Brushfield street and you can can see the same corner building on Spital Square, which I believe was only demolished in the past few years.


Rob

[tnb]

Rob that is brilliant, thank you and, as ever, I am in awe of your knowledge. So now we know, Andrew!

Would the road seen leading towards the market buildings in the final scene therefore be equivalent to today's Seward Street, or have the roads been completely realigned?

[Rob Clack]

Hi Trevor,

Yeah that's right. In the last one we are looking up Steward Street and if the camera man was looking to his right he would be looking directly at Christ Church.

Rob

[tnb]

Hi Trevor,

Yeah that's right. In the last one we are looking up Steward Street and if the camera man was looking to his right he would be looking directly at Christ Church.

Rob

Thanks Rob.

[Mitch Rowe]

Hi Doris,
I am lucky enough to have walked right 29, Hanbury street at 530am on the 8th September 1965, as part of my visits to that area, at the relevant dates and times.
If only I knew that over forty years later , I would be corresponding on the internet, I would have obtained some item , even if it was a paint flake etc[ I believe someone did on Casebook] however I did achieve my goal that autumn, to feel the atmosphere of just being there...
Incidently with regard to Millers court, I believe when the houses were demolished, the foreman on site, was rumoured to have sold many a brick, as momentoes, how I wish I was around then.
Regards Richard.

Stewart Evans mentioned he had scraped some paint off the door. Put them in a bag or some container and misplaced them in his house.

[Mitch Rowe]

It is a fascinating film, and lots of it can be seen on youtube.

Watching it always makes me wonder did those people not understand how interesting or important history is/was.

If I was in the vicinity of 29 Hanbury St just before it ws demolished I would have abstracted the front and back doors, the big sign which ran accross the top of the ground floor, the steps into the garden, and all the back yard stones I could bear away!

I also wonder the same thing when Leonard Matters was hanging around in Miller's court just before it too was demolished.

Why didn't he make off with the window frame, the door, the wooden partition, and anything else left in the room.

Iam sure if the workmen tasked with the destruction of those buildings were approached with some money in hand they would have gladly come to an arrangment with an interested party.

Or did people just not care enough, or underestimate the sites importance?

Mind you surely Matters must have realised the importance of the locations, despite his book being ludicrous.

doris

What I would have wanted is measurements. Plus a little digging. Perhaps it was possible to give us the exact dimensions of the yard/shed/water spicket.
The height of the indentations in the wall where the roof over the stairwell perhaps once was attached to.
And all the refuse in the yard would be nice. And about a foot or two of the dirt right around the body position.

Actually I would have only been satisfied if the whole mess was considered a historical site to be preserved and a complete building was built around it to protect it. I think the site could have supported itself with tourist dollars but not as simply a place to gawk at. I would much rather a sort of museum for educational purposes.

[ghoulstonstreet]

Thanks Andrew - but the scene I am referring to is before Mason goes to Hanbury St. Perhaps I got the script wrong and that phrase is over the Hanbury St section; unfortunately I don't have the DVD to hand to check (this is why I hate lending people stuff!), nor to try and do some kind of fancy screen-capture thing (although it would probably prove beyond me!). I am trying to find the appropriate section on youtube - watch this space, as they say.

Hi Folks, Nice to see the interest in my thread questions - but I still don't know how to locate this film on Youtube. The only one I come up with is just a few seconds long, showing 29 Hanbury St. Where is the one showing Spitalfields Square etc as shown in the wonderful large photos? Thanks, G street

[tnb]

Hi Folks, Nice to see the interest in my thread questions - but I still don't know how to locate this film on Youtube. The only one I come up with is just a few seconds long, showing 29 Hanbury St. Where is the one showing Spitalfields Square etc as shown in the wonderful large photos? Thanks, G street

Unfortunately Ghoulston that section is not on Youtube - and I can say that with some authority as I spent a long time yesterday searching for it! The screenshot I took was from the DVD. There are various scenes on Youtube if you search around, but the Hanbury St visit is the only part of the East End section that is up at the minute.

It is only £6.99 on Amazon (UK) at the minute - I am not sure whether you are in the UK or elsewhere, you could get it shipped from Amazon.co.uk if it is the latter (I did the same the other way round with John Keefe's book on Frances Coles) but it would of course require you to have a DVD player capable of playing the format, which I understand are not as freely available elsewhere as they are in the UK. It really is a fantastic film and well worth buying if you ever get the chance at a reasonable price, although I see it is going for an obscene sum on Amazon.com at the minute.

Sorry I can't be of more use - Here's the link on amazon uk:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/London-Nobody-Knows-Bicyclettes-Belsize/dp/B000Z63ZNS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1275242483&sr=8-1

[silverstealth]

Great images as always Rob.