'McCarthy's Rents' art installation

[clark2710]

i just mistakenly posted a thread with the same topic that i'll take down now that i know about this one but in my humble opinion

On the one hand it's art and i can tell that a good bit of work, research, and skill went into this recreation piece. While done accurately, to as well as i can tell, the only thing that bothers me is the same reason that Mary J. Kelly is famous in the first place and i find a bit of irony as a result in how i feel. To explain, yes i appreciate the artistic value of this, and yes i appreciate the work that went into it, all be it over 100 some odd years old, MJK, E. Stride, and all the rest were people once upon a time....i for one would like to see an art piece of MJK leaning against a lamp post or something humming an irish hymn maybe a piece where she's opening the door to a gentleman. i don't know i for one like the piece and i think you did a masterful job but said and done it draws attention to the very thing that made her famous in the first place which is also happening to be the worst thing to happen to her that ended her life. Not sure if i've even made my point or if i'm making sense even but there you have it

[Phil Carter]

Hello Dave,

You asked and welcomed opinions. Allow me to give mine.

I tend to see this as a recreation of a scene. To see this recreation in a clean environment, all white and gleaming, somehow, for me personally, takes something away from the reality of the place and time in which the scene is set. To my mind, I would find this even more disturbing, and dare I say, even more realistic, had the scene been recreated with the dirt, poverty and living circumstances associated with the room and the victim, the time and the place, in all it's sad colour, in order to truly reflect the appalling horror, if that was at all a part of your intention. It looks to me too clinically clean in a bright white background.
That said, I see and respect the enormous technical work involved in attempting to recreate this awful horror.

best wishes

Phil

[Madam Red]

Oh GOD.
I already have trouble looking at the old photos.
I feel incrediably sick right now...

[CMauthe]

I went to see it!

Hello All,

I’ve been lurking around Casebook for a couple years though this is only my second posting. I discovered this thread a couple weeks ago and since I live only an hour from Austin, I decided to drive up to check out the simulation of the Mary Kelly scene. I’m nowhere near an art critic but rather an (extremely)amateur/hobbyist Ripperologist enthusiastic for this unsolved crime.

I thought I would write back to report what I thought of the installation.

As a whole, it is pretty good. It is startling to experience in person and though it misses on some details that might cause some to quibble, it still gets the scene right.

The lack of color was a good choice on the artist’s part. I noticed that someone on the thread mentioned that the pictures of the art on the web looked sterile because of the extensive use of white. I agree with the sentiment about the pictures but in person, however, you see more gray and black than the pictures let on. Because of this, you get more of a sense of standing before a live black and white photograph or even (waxing poetic here) standing before a memory.

The rendition of Mary’s body is good. The skin was a mottled gray that looked convincing for dead flesh. As for her body and disemboweling wounds I would say the artist did a great job. In the official photos your eye is forced to puzzle together the human form that is there. I got the same effect standing before the installation. I had to piece together what I was seeing just as in the official photograph.

After seeing this, I find that I pity more those who found and worked the murder scene. They certainly would never have forgotten what they saw. Nightmarish. The poor woman was destroyed by the killer.

I cannot say that much new information could be gleaned from the sculpture, simply a sense of the horrible crime that was committed.

I would applaud the artist in his creation of quite the nightmarish scene. I can’t say that I exactly enjoyed standing in its presence but I think that it was his aim.

[AuroraSarintacos]

I believe the lack of words I have to say on this matter, Ally, should be enough.

Good night.

[Altered DNA]

More info later tonight...

Hello Everybody,

I'm sorry that I've been absent from the boards for a bit, but I will put up a new post tonight that discusses the name of my installation, some of my detail choices, and why I chose Mary Kelly as opposed to one of the other Ripper victims.

Thanks again for all of the comments and questions! I'll also try to answer some of the questions that weren't answered in my previous posts.

Peace,

Dave Allen

[Ally]

[QUOTE=Jon Guy;105309]

The artist could have indulged himself, and thrown a couple of buckets of red paint on it. He could have re-created that dingy little room, and the arterial spray on the filthy wall.

Yes, while it is true it could have been made even more tacky and tasteless a display than it is, the fact that he didn't indulge in as much tastelessness as possible doesn't detract from the tastelessness he decided to indulge in.

Even the title is accurate. The place was known as McCarthy`s Rents. Top marks to the artist for not referring to Kelly or the Ripper in the title.

The title may well be accurate via the place but it's not inline with his statement that the focus was to be on Mary not on "the place". As it is, it reads more of an indictment (not that I actually believe he had intentions anywhere so pure as to attempt moral condemnation) of slumlording than woman slaughtering.

People will be drawn to the piece without the Ripper connection, and then ask questions.

You know I get slammed for being an elitist when I make speculations as to what will be in people's minds like that. I guess we wait and see how many people five years from now when asked what first drew them to the case say, oh you know, I was in this Halloween freak show and I saw this really accurate depiction of a butchered woman and it really made me want to find out more about the man who did that....I also wanted to find out her name since it never appeared anywhere on the exhibit.

[Jon Guy]

I guess the majority of people equate Jack the Ripper with top hats, Heather Graham`s bosom, lesbians, and clairvoyant, alcoholic detectives tripping out in opium dens.

With this in mind, I am always grateful for accuracy to detail when any artist decides to use the murders as a subject. The piece is certainly accurate.

The artist could have indulged himself, and thrown a couple of buckets of red paint on it. He could have re-created that dingy little room, and the arterial spray on the filthy wall.

Even the title is accurate. The place was known as McCarthy`s Rents. Top marks to the artist for not referring to Kelly or the Ripper in the title. People will be drawn to the piece without the Ripper connection, and then ask questions.

Hopefully, there will be a few who will view it, who will replace the Hughes Brother`s gross fairytale with the shocking reality of the crimes.

[Chris]

The girl is making a line in the sand and saying, cross this and you stare into a bottomless pit. I stand on that line with her.

As mixed metaphors go, that's rather a good one!

[Cap'n Jack]

I've got to give Ally my 100% support here in her endeavours, regardless of the fact that the girl has had me banned at least four times... Ally's morals and judgement cannot be questioned here, at all. The girl is making a line in the sand and saying, cross this and you stare into a bottomless pit. I stand on that line with her.

[Bailey]

Ally, I loves ya! I often don't agree with you, and I'd hate to get on your bad side in the real world, especially if I was genuinely in the wrong, but I do enjoy having you around here, and on Rippercast (when it shows up, that is).

As for this installation and the debate... I think it's an amazing technical effort, and if it was within range I'd go and see it. I love the decision to keep it B&W, and I very much like the sterility of the setting and how it draws focus to the figure on the bed. So, yes, there's a lot going for it, and if you put aside for a moment questions of taste and the venue, I think it's a very impressive piece of work.

Its context - in what seems, despite arguments to the contrary, to be a Halloween entertainment show and therefore more than a little tacky / tasteless - is indeed dubious, but I can only imagine that there's no context in which you could place it where the questions of prurience and cheap thrills wouldn't be an issue. I wonder how it would have been received had it been part of the Docklands exhibit, or included at a Ripper conference - i.e. in a "respectable" or "scholarly" setting as a opposed to a carnival one.

I suspect there's a conflict here too - those who would want to see it as a gore / thrill experience will most likely be annoyed by the B&W rather than full splattery colour, while those who would appreciate the artistic and scholarly intentions are less likely to attend in the setting in which it is being exhibited.


Re MJ's name - I'd like to see a transcript of whatever text is on offer to the public at the site. I think "McCarthy's Rents" is a suitable title, but would want to know what other info is given. Not sure how you'd use MJ's name in the title, but titles have never been my forte. I did flash on a couple of tasteless ones, but I'll keep them to myself.

One last question for the artist (and I use the term with no apologies, for that's what he is, whether or not anyone deems him a successful or tasteless one) - how did you come to your decisions re the placement and depiction of the face? As point out elsewhere, the face in the photo is so indistinct, but most of the rest of the image is reasonably clear, and your piece reflects that and seems fairly accurate, but your face seems to me to be facing higher, more towards the ceiling than the camera, and oddly enough, less mutilated that that in the photo.

B.

[Ally]

Oh and returning to topic:

Dave. This installation. All about putting the focus on Mary, right? And her name is WHERE?

[Ally]

Hi there. Of course I want to be known as a fukking bitch. DO you think I'd be a fukking bitch if I didn't want to be known as one? Do you see the little title under my name. Read it, study it, memorize it.

People, learn. Insulting me doesn't work. I am an fully fledge parade worthy card carrying member of the big bitch society.


And I always love the people who insult others while telling them not to do it. Right up there with telling people to be respectful while being disrespectful. Why does anyone think I am likely to listen to behavioral hypocrites. Jesus people get a new playbook.

[AuroraSarintacos]

Hello all,

I believe that there can't be for any reasonable amount of certainty that the poor woman whose body was found in number 13; Millers Court, was poised or not.

While I do believe that the hand was placed to lay across the abdominal area, I doubt there was much thought processing going on in his (the killer's) mind. What I find "Jack" to be doing is just slicing, stabbing, and cutting away--and obviously this still relates well with the previous victims.

There isn't much thought going on; he's just mutilating his victims like if one were to take a steak knife and just stab and, quite literally, rip away a good amount of the meat from the bone in a frenzy. He isn't really aiming for them to be sprawled out in a certain positions--I do not think he cared much about the poising of their bodies, and it is my thought that that same action also applies in the case of Mary Kelly.

While the legs would be either drawn up and spread apart for most of the victims, (with the exception of Stride, I think) that merely is just happening due to the 'work' he is carrying out.

Also, just to put this out there--the body of Mary Kelly was terribly mutilated and it would make sense that he would turn her head this way to cut off her face; grab a hold of one leg to rip the flesh from said leg all the way down to the bone--so the way her body is poised is not due to any real thinking, nothing planned---it just happened that way.

I believe that, while her hand may have been resting on her abdomen, it could have simply just been tossed there. Now, whether that means he actually propped her hand or not is debatable. A lot should be considered.

Now as for Ally, do not let her get you down. While she may say things very bluntly, almost verging on insult--if she isn't being insulting--she means well sometimes. Mostly she is just very defensive and tries to come off as rational in a sleuth of crazed Ripper fans whom goggle over the most minuscule ideas of Jack, who he might be, and his victims. I think she is just tired of all the nonsense associated with this site, as well as the whole 'Jack the ripper' lore.

However, Ally, you need to learn to be respectful and grow up to the years of your age. Do you really want to be known as a f------ bitch? I'm sure you don't. You need to be more mature. The world doesn't revolve around you and other people are entitled to their opinions as well; just like yourself. But when one opinion of another verges on insult--in fact I believe that is what you were aiming for--well, than that is too much. While I know not everyone can get along and be respectful, I believe it is almost in anyone's power to do so. And the same applies to you.

[Ally]

Nah...changed my mind...troll posters aren't worth the effort. I'll save the love for Dave.