Episode 64- The Real Mary Kelly with Wynne Weston-Davies

[Robert]

Great find Pat!

[Paddy]

A mention in 1876

This is from that site I mentioned in last post, it is regarding a baliff catching men illegally casting nets. She was a defence witness..

The Cambrian News and Merionethshire Standard
9th August 1878
For the defence Elizabeth Weston Davies, Aberangell, said she was at Thomas Davies's house until half-past eleven o'clock at night. Thomas Evans and his two brothers and the two sisters were there, and she left them in the house when she went away. Thomas Evans had his boots off and was preparing to go to bed. Jane Lewis, Aberangell, said she left in company with the foregoing witness. Evans's boots were not on his feet. David Evans said he slept with his brother Thomas, who went to bed first. When lie (witness) went to bed he left his sisters down-stairs. He and his brother had to pass through their sisters' bedroom. He found his brother in bed, and he was there in the morning. He went to bed soon after Elizabeth Davies left. Thomas got up the first in the morning

Pat.....

[DJA]

http://blog.christiandaviesantiques.co.uk/designers/maple-and-co

Have pursued the parents of a different Mary Ann Kelly who lived in Tottenham Rd at one stage.

They were furniture sellers.

Thought the above link might be pertinent to this thread though.

[Paddy]

Thanks for that JM I didn't hear that bit.
A good newspaper link if anyone can understand welsh, a few are english

http://newspapers.library.wales/search

I did see that Edward Davies' sister Mary Weston Davies was married to a Mr West who was connected to a company called Maple & Co in London. I had to put bits onto a online translator that was a bit hit and miss. Millions of Elizabeth Davies so have not translated them.

Pat......

[jmenges]

Anne was the lady's maid many years prior to her first husbands death, being hired on in 1846, when Mary Cornelia was 16 years old and Anne, 19. It was Elizabeth who the author suggests took this same role shortly after the death of Anne's first husband. Wynne mentions Anne's second marriage to the local shop-keeper briefly in the podcast.

JM

[Paddy]

Mother Anne

I really enjoyed the podcast..

I wonder if Wynne knew that Elizabeths mother Anne looks like she moved in with a Mr David Evans after her husband died and they both lived in Mallwyd where Mr Evans was a Grocer (in 1881 census)....It doesnt look like she is working for the family he mentioned?

Pat.....

[packers stem]

Cheers Elmore. I'll take a look

[elmore 77]

hi,Packers Stem

You might be interested in a few of the posts in a thread titled Mary Jane Kellys aliases. Its in the victims threads MJK page 19.I can't find any mention of pros being called kellys but in the bibliography of this book there are a few books on prostitution so no doubt its kosher

[packers stem]

Thanks for the podcast, very interesting theory and just on the 'johnto' alone shouldn't be ignored
I'd love to know what sources there were for the belief that the name 'mary kelly' was commonly used by prostitutes though cos I've never come across this before...was it ever mentioned in the press at the time??

[DJA]

Jonto is a nickname widely used in the Carmarthen area so if you want to find the real name what you require is a catholic family in Carmarthen who match the description given by MJK… And then cross match the surnames of any potential families that fit to the 2nd Battalion Scots Guards records in Ireland…

Yours Jef

Worth noting that between late 1885 and 1895 the 2nd Battalion was stationed in London.

They then spent two years in Dublin before returning.

The 1st battalion were stationed there in 1877/8.

[MrBarnett]

Interested to note from the podcast some cynicism about a Carmarthen boy joining the Scots Guards. I attach a photograph of a Welsh section of the Scots guards though admittedly later on.

In a recent journey to Carmarthen Museum is was also interested to note sections of a once great monument that dominated Carmarthen with a freeze of the Battle of Waterloo. So clearly Carmarthen had military connections.

I was also surprised that MJK journey was laid out very much in Welsh term without taking account of the actual geoprgraphy, travelling between North and South Wales (Carmarthen and Camarvon) being almost impossible at the time, one journey from Ireland to the north taking you to Liverpool, Manchester London. The route to the South taking you Limerick, Fishguard, Carmarthen, Cardiff London.

While I accept MJK almost certain told some exaggerations, much of her story has actually been proved correct and it just doesn't make sense to me to throw everything out of the window, when the most simple explanation (And like many prostitutes before her) MJK used a false name.

Jonto is a nickname widely used in the Carmarthen area so if you want to find the real name what you require is a catholic family in Carmarthen who match the description given by MJK… And then cross match the surnames of any potential families that fit to the 2nd Battalion Scots Guards records in Ireland…

Yours Jef

Jef,

The Photo is of Corporal Welsh's squad. Are we sure these boys are Welsh?

Gary

[jmenges]

He didn't mention it and we didn't ask. If it's bankrolled by a TV channel and they do find her skull intact there's no telling what they'd do. The authors only concern seems to be ID, and if it's positive then a proper memorial service with family in attendance and re burial.

Jeff- thanks for the Scots Guard post above. Interesting.

JM

[Steadmund Brand]

Another great pod-cast thank you all so much.

Maybe I missed it if it was talked about, but if they do exhume the body, and determine it is the "Mary Kelly" we are looking for, will there be a facial reconstructionist hired as well?

again, hope I am not asking something that was already discussed....

thanks again and I can't wait for the next one

Steadmund Brand

[Jeff Leahy]

Interested to note from the podcast some cynicism about a Carmarthen boy joining the Scots Guards. I attach a photograph of a Welsh section of the Scots guards though admittedly later on.

In a recent journey to Carmarthen Museum is was also interested to note sections of a once great monument that dominated Carmarthen with a freeze of the Battle of Waterloo. So clearly Carmarthen had military connections.

I was also surprised that MJK journey was laid out very much in Welsh term without taking account of the actual geoprgraphy, travelling between North and South Wales (Carmarthen and Camarvon) being almost impossible at the time, one journey from Ireland to the north taking you to Liverpool, Manchester London. The route to the South taking you Limerick, Fishguard, Carmarthen, Cardiff London.

While I accept MJK almost certain told some exaggerations, much of her story has actually been proved correct and it just doesn't make sense to me to throw everything out of the window, when the most simple explanation (And like many prostitutes before her) MJK used a false name.

Jonto is a nickname widely used in the Carmarthen area so if you want to find the real name what you require is a catholic family in Carmarthen who match the description given by MJK… And then cross match the surnames of any potential families that fit to the 2nd Battalion Scots Guards records in Ireland…

Yours Jef

[jmenges]

Thanks, Philzilla. We aim to please.

JM