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Oh, Dear Boss: Druitt's on a Sticky Wicket

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  • Originally posted by caz View Post

    Hi Herlock,

    The note itself was undated, wasn't it? If Druitt didn't know if it would be read on the same day he wrote it, would he not at least be presuming that the reader would understand which Friday he meant - for example if he was dismissed from the school on a Friday? Or might he have been too far down the suicidal path by then to put himself in the reader's position of trying to make sense of it?

    Love,

    Caz
    X
    Hi Caz,

    Yes it’s written as if whoever read it (William mainly) would have known the significance of the ‘Friday.’ He hadn’t been removed from his position at the cricket club yet so this does appear to point to the day of his sacking from the school for me.
    Regards

    Sir Herlock Sholmes

    “It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.”

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

      I can't recall reading anywhere what the size of those stones were.
      The body was found floating so they didn't seem to work, though it could always be argued that it was putrification that brought it to the surface. From what I've read though, in order to counter the instinct to survive, assuming he was conscious when he went in, the stones would need to be much heavier than his own body weight.
      A body's natural tendency is to float, no matter what the weight.

      Druitt was not particularly heavy built, maybe 150lb?
      How many coats have pockets big enough to hold a mans body weight (150lb) in stones?
      Assuming you could fill all your pocket with 150lb? of stones, wouldn't your instinct be to pull the coat off?

      Doesn't this suggest that either Druitt was not conscious when he went in the water, or he was restrained under water somehow until he drowned?
      It would be interesting to see some information on methods of suicide for someone of Druitt’s class just to see if any methods are less often employed? We know that Virginia Wolf drowned herself of course but I always get the image of an upper class man committing suicide due to some shame or dishonour doing it via a bullet? I don’t know if Woolf could swim? I can’t really base an opinion on knowledge but it does seem on the face of it to have been a bit of a strange choice for the athletic Druitt with an unused return train ticket in his pocket.
      Regards

      Sir Herlock Sholmes

      “It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.”

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post

        Hi Wick, there are many explanations but the one most favoured is that when the English came over early 20th century or late nineteenth they would go red quickly in the sun and look like Pomegranates
        Regards Darryl
        Another possible explanation Daryl:
        • It is now pretty well accepted that the pomegranate theory is close to the truth,though there’s a slight twist to take note of. H J Rumsey wrote about it in 1920 in the introduction to his book The Pommies, or New Chums in Australia. He suggested that the word began life on the wharves in Melbourne as a form of rhyming slang. An immigrant was at first called a Jimmy Grant (was there perhaps a famous real person by that name around at the time?), but over time this shifted to Pommy Grant, perhaps as a reference to pomegranate, because the new chums did burn in the sun. Later pommy became a word on its own and was frequently abbreviated still further. The pomegranate theory was also given some years earlier in The Anzac Book of 1916.
        Regards

        Sir Herlock Sholmes

        “It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.”

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

          You are kidding, Abby, right?
          Holiday comes from Old English, the question is, why do Yanks use Vacation, for Holiday?
          Like they screwed up "Football", for what is really Rugby, with a helmet

          Vacation is from Latin.
          "Vacation" indeed comes from Latin, as does "vacant" and "vacate". It means that a person is absent or away from their usual place at work or school.
          Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
          ---------------
          Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
          ---------------

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

            Did you get an overwhelming sense of evil Joshua?

            Im a fan of progressive rock and I didn’t know until last week that Robert Fripp from King Crimson (and husband of Toyah Wilcox) was also born in Wimborne.
            Naah. What would be the fun in using my psychic powers to solve the case?

            I did once get a funny feeling watching Toyah, though.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post

              Naah. What would be the fun in using my psychic powers to solve the case?

              I did once get a funny feeling watching Toyah, though.
              Yes, I’ve seen those videos too
              Regards

              Sir Herlock Sholmes

              “It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.”

              Comment


              • "Since Friday I felt that I was going to be like mother, and the best thing for me was to die."

                I’ve often thought ‘surely this wasn’t the whole note?’ And ‘why wasn’t the whole note quoted at the inquest?’

                In the Acton, Chiswick and Turnham Green Gazette added the words ‘to this effect,’ indicating that this might not even have been a direct quote? I can’t help wondering again - why might he have just quoted the gist of what Monty had written? Why wasn’t the whole note read out? Leaving aside any ripper-based speculation, William was already being forced to go public with the ‘shame’ of his mother’s mental illness and the ‘shame’ of a suicide, so what could he have wanted leaving out?

                The only suggestion that I can come up with at the moment is that the note might have mentioned other family members which William was intent on denying the existence of? Any other suggestions?

                Regards

                Sir Herlock Sholmes

                “It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.”

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                  "Since Friday I felt that I was going to be like mother, and the best thing for me was to die."

                  I’ve often thought ‘surely this wasn’t the whole note?’ And ‘why wasn’t the whole note quoted at the inquest?’

                  In the Acton, Chiswick and Turnham Green Gazette added the words ‘to this effect,’ indicating that this might not even have been a direct quote? I can’t help wondering again - why might he have just quoted the gist of what Monty had written? Why wasn’t the whole note read out? Leaving aside any ripper-based speculation, William was already being forced to go public with the ‘shame’ of his mother’s mental illness and the ‘shame’ of a suicide, so what could he have wanted leaving out?
                  ​​​​​​
                  The only suggestion that I can come up with at the moment is that the note might have mentioned other family members which William was intent on denying the existence of? Any other suggestions?
                  Yes, I think the contents were summarised, rather than being a direct quote.
                  ​​​​​​
                  But I think it was the coroner who read out the note, so I can't see that William would be the one hiding anything. Unless he had forged the note, of course, or asked the coroner to withhold personal but irrelevant details.
                  Most likely I'd have thought the press (or coroner) paraphrased the note, either from sensitivity, or for brevity.

                  AC&TGG 5 Jan '89; The Coroner read the letter, which was to this effect:-"Since Friday I felt I was going to be like mother, and the best thing was for me to die."
                  ​​​​​


                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post

                    Yes, I think the contents were summarised, rather than being a direct quote.
                    ​​​​​​
                    But I think it was the coroner who read out the note, so I can't see that William would be the one hiding anything. Unless he had forged the note, of course, or asked the coroner to withhold personal but irrelevant details.
                    Most likely I'd have thought the press (or coroner) paraphrased the note, either from sensitivity, or for brevity.

                    AC&TGG 5 Jan '89; The Coroner read the letter, which was to this effect:-"Since Friday I felt I was going to be like mother, and the best thing was for me to die."
                    ​​​​​

                    The only part that set me thinking Joshua was the fact that his mother’s mental illness and Monty’s suicide were already out there with all of the stigma that was attached at that time so what else ‘might’ William have requested Diplock to keep out of the public domain? We know that Diplock knew the family of course. It’s just a suggestion but it’s possible that Druitt might have left messages for the rest of the family in the note and William didn’t want their names made public to prevent the Press prying into painful family business?

                    Unless of course………
                    Regards

                    Sir Herlock Sholmes

                    “It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.”

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                      "Since Friday I felt that I was going to be like mother, and the best thing for me was to die."

                      I’ve often thought ‘surely this wasn’t the whole note?’ And ‘why wasn’t the whole note quoted at the inquest?’

                      In the Acton, Chiswick and Turnham Green Gazette added the words ‘to this effect,’ indicating that this might not even have been a direct quote? I can’t help wondering again - why might he have just quoted the gist of what Monty had written? Why wasn’t the whole note read out? Leaving aside any ripper-based speculation, William was already being forced to go public with the ‘shame’ of his mother’s mental illness and the ‘shame’ of a suicide, so what could he have wanted leaving out?

                      The only suggestion that I can come up with at the moment is that the note might have mentioned other family members which William was intent on denying the existence of? Any other suggestions?
                      My tongue is firmly in my cheek as I type this, but I have often thought that if this was an Agatha Christie style murder-mystery the note would be a red herring.

                      It would have been torn from a longer letter in which Monty discusses his mother's morbid obesity and expresses concern that he too may be piling on the pounds, hence;

                      "Since Friday I felt I was going to be like mother, and the best thing was for me to die(t)".

                      Just a flight of fancy!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Ms Diddles View Post

                        My tongue is firmly in my cheek as I type this, but I have often thought that if this was an Agatha Christie style murder-mystery the note would be a red herring.

                        It would have been torn from a longer letter in which Monty discusses his mother's morbid obesity and expresses concern that he too may be piling on the pounds, hence;

                        "Since Friday I felt I was going to be like mother, and the best thing was for me to die(t)".

                        Just a flight of fancy!
                        I can imagine Poirot asking Inspector Japp to request that Druitt’s body be exhumed to see if he’d been poisoned by an overdose of a new slimming potion that had been invented by some dodgy young toff with gambling debts.
                        Regards

                        Sir Herlock Sholmes

                        “It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.”

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                          I can imagine Poirot asking Inspector Japp to request that Druitt’s body be exhumed to see if he’d been poisoned by an overdose of a new slimming potion that had been invented by some dodgy young toff with gambling debts.
                          Ha!

                          Yes, and enquiring at the cricket club about whether in the months prior to his suicide they had had to order some new whites for Monty to fit his newly expanded waistline!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Ms Diddles View Post

                            Ha!

                            Yes, and enquiring at the cricket club about whether in the months prior to his suicide they had had to order some new whites for Monty to fit his newly expanded waistline!
                            Good thinking Ms Marple….err….I mean Ms D
                            Regards

                            Sir Herlock Sholmes

                            “It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.”

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                              Another possible explanation Daryl:
                              • It is now pretty well accepted that the pomegranate theory is close to the truth,though there’s a slight twist to take note of. H J Rumsey wrote about it in 1920 in the introduction to his book The Pommies, or New Chums in Australia. He suggested that the word began life on the wharves in Melbourne as a form of rhyming slang. An immigrant was at first called a Jimmy Grant (was there perhaps a famous real person by that name around at the time?), but over time this shifted to Pommy Grant, perhaps as a reference to pomegranate, because the new chums did burn in the sun. Later pommy became a word on its own and was frequently abbreviated still further. The pomegranate theory was also given some years earlier in The Anzac Book of 1916.
                              Afternoon Herlock,

                              I should imagine that it was simply that "Jimmy Grant" rhymes so well with "Immi-grant''. That would argue against a real person of that name, but it's not how rhyming slang typically works either.

                              I can see how Jimmy Grant could then have evolved into Pommy Grant, because "Pommy-grant" sounds so similar to "pomegranate".

                              On balance I would doubt that it was more than a play on words and their sounds, going from "immigrant" to "Jimmigrant", and then via "Pommygrant" and "pomegranate" to just "pommie".

                              Love,

                              Caz
                              X

                              "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post

                                Naah. What would be the fun in using my psychic powers to solve the case?

                                I did once get a funny feeling watching Toyah, though.
                                Mister Brown knows that "Toyah" feeling very well.

                                Love,

                                Caz
                                X
                                "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                                Comment

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