Ep. #28- Kosminski Was The Suspect

[twnorman]

Personally I would like to hear more episodes of the Ripper Cast whether or not this DNA is brought up. Surely there are still things to talk about and as a newbie to this site, I want to hear more.

[Semper_Eadem]

Hi,

my personal opinion is that this book has, probably unintentionally, hurt Ripperology in certain ways without adding a single identifiable thing of value.

Don't worry, if Ripperology can survive the Royal Conspiracy Shenanigans it can survive anything.

[Semper_Eadem]

Yeah Jmenges, you make a good point, about an hour after I made that post the subject jumped the shark in my mind. If I was in your shoes I would wait until there was conformation/ more independent DNA testing of the said shawl before doing an episode about it.

SE

[jmenges]

Hi,

Honestly I don't know. A week ago it seemed like a good idea, but now I feel that the topic has jumped the shark and discussing it on a podcast would offer little to nothing that readers of the book and the message boards don't already know. And, my personal opinion is that this book has, probably unintentionally, hurt Ripperology in certain ways without adding a single identifiable thing of value. Therefore, a part of me believes this subject is best ignored.

But I may change my mind. We'll see.

JM

[Semper_Eadem]

Just Curious..

To Rippercast,

Will there be a new podcast on Kosiminski and the new DNA evidence from Catherine Eddowes supposed shawl? If there is please let me know as I will be tuning in to hear that one.

Thanks

[Rob Clack]

The information on the database is minimal:

http://tinyurl.com/4jw936

But it does include a heading "Clinical & Patients 1866 - 1968", and refers to a "Brief Guide" held at the LMA.

It struck me that the asylum was quite near to the Thames estuary, but it would probably be a bit too much of a stretch to think it could be referred to as a "Seaside Home" - unless perhaps as a kind of sarcastic euphemism.

Thanks Chris, I'll pop up tomorrow and have a look.

Cheers

Rob

[Chris]

Thanks Chris, I'll have a look in the next week or so. The only records I saw were the administrative records but that was on the Computer catalogue. I'll check the paper catalogues which should be more complete.

The information on the database is minimal:

http://tinyurl.com/4jw936

But it does include a heading "Clinical & Patients 1866 - 1968", and refers to a "Brief Guide" held at the LMA.

It struck me that the asylum was quite near to the Thames estuary, but it would probably be a bit too much of a stretch to think it could be referred to as a "Seaside Home" - unless perhaps as a kind of sarcastic euphemism.

[Fisherman]

The link http://images.google.se/imgres?imgur...%3Dsv%26sa%3DG leads to a set of pictures of the Holloway Sanatorium. Remarkable piece of architecture if nothing else!

The best,

Fisherman

[Rob Clack]

Thanks Chris, I'll have a look in the next week or so. The only records I saw were the administrative records but that was on the Computer catalogue. I'll check the paper catalogues which should be more complete.

Rob

[Chris]

I also tried to see if I could find some admission books for Stone Asylum, which if I am not mistaken was a City of London Asylum. I only saw some charge sheets (which parish an inmate was chargeable) and the ref was CLA/047/LR/06/027 but I couldn't see anything relating to Stone there, although Leavesden was mentioned. It didn't specify as far as I saw which Leavesden. But I had no luck anyway. I'll try in the next few weeks to see if I can find anything more at the London Metropolitan Archives.

According to the Hospital Records database most of the records for Stone are among the records formerly held by the Corporation of London Record Office, now at the LMA (though apparently the LMA held some administrative records).

I had been meaning to look at these for a while, but maybe you will have a chance before I do. I'm not sure how likely it is that the records for patients will be open for the period of interest.

[Natalie Severn]

Fascinating Stewart.Thanks for that. I never knew this suspect had been tackled and traced like this.I noted in the police files of Kew that Sanders got more than a mere mention ---in fact the police appear to have made several separate and serious efforts to track him and two other "insane medical students "down. All three "insane medical students " appear to have been based in the Whitechapel Hospital in 1888. Its a wonder any of the patients were safe!

[Stephen Thomas]

Many thanks indeed for that information, Stewart.

[Stewart P Evans]

Ascot

Wasn't JTR supposed to have spent time in an asylum in Surrey and is there not an (ex?) asylum in Virginia Water, Surrey, that houses 'JTR's room'?

This is probably the story instigated partly by Colin Wilson who wrote of receiving a letter after he wrote a series of articles 'My Search for Jack the Ripper' in the London Evening News in 1960. Colin stated that a lady in Ascot told him that her father ran the mental home in which the Ripper had died. Unfortunately she failed to sign her letter and Colin was unable to trace her.

In the heady summer days of 1992 I received my first copy of Ripperana from Nick Warren and his feature article was 'The Asylum at Ascot', pages 8-10. Nick's article included Colin Wilson's story that he had received two letters that made the assertion that 'the Ripper was an insane medical student, in hiding from his family, who was subsequently confined in a private asylum near Ascot (or possibly Windsor)'.

Nick then noted the mention of the insane medical student suspect, John William Smith Sanders who was 'in and out of various asylums from 1887 onwards...' He was disturbed and violent.

During the early summer of 1990 Nick had been told of 'a peculiar rumour' about 'a disused Victorian asylum, still standing, and protected as a listed building.' Rumour had it that a derelict padded cell, within this building had a door on which was scrawled graffito 'Jack the Ripper's Room.' The room was supposed to be slightly below gound level and illuminated mainly by daylight through a grille in the ceiling.

Nick's enquiries revealed that the only building to fit the criteria was Holloway Sanatorium in Stroude Road, Virginia Water, Surrey. It 'existed in 1888 as a private asylum for the genteel' and was closed in the 1960s as an NHS institution. Nick states that this listed building is 'a Gothic masterpiece based on the Cloth Hall at Ypres.' Nick further stated that the census showed that Sanders was a resident patient of the Holloway Sanatorium, Virginia Water, in April 1891. There is pretty good coverage of this story in the A-Z.

[Stephen Thomas]

Wasn't JTR supposed to have spent time in an asylum in Surrey and is there not an (ex?) asylum in Virginia Water, Surrey, that houses 'JTR's room'?

[Chris]

Chris, what about the LMA? I think there's some stuff there that isn't at the NA concerning, e.g., Bethnal House.

I suppose some records of private asylums will have survived in various places, and some will have been lost, but if I understand correctly the centrally-maintained registers in MH 94 should list everyone who was committed to a private asylum anywhere in the country.

But if - because of some subtlety I've missed - that isn't the case, I supose we are doomed to be unsure about the possibility of an earlier committal to a private asylum, because some of the records are bound to have been lost.