Jack the Ripper Suspects with author Paul Williams

[jmenges]

Rippercast is pleased to welcome to the show Paul Williams, the author of the book 'Jack the Ripper Suspects: The Definitive Guide and Encyclopedia'. Joining us for this round table discussion is also authors Paul Begg and Neil R.A. Bell.



Available to stream or download now from the following link:

http://www.casebook.org/podcast/listen.html?id=192

Also available for FREE in the podcast app of your choice.

Thank you to Paul, Neil and Paul for joining me on the show today.

And thank you for listening!


JM

[Debra A]

Thanks for another interesting podcast, Jonathon and to everyone involved.
I was particularly interested in the discussion about whether it was right or not to take research shared on a message board and use it in a book.

Jonathon used the example of Grande's marriage certificate that I posted a couple of years back that Paul Williams had mentioned in his suspect book. I just wanted to say that I didn't mind Paul using research I'd posted and I think the main reason for that is because he referenced and credited the research he took from in most cases.

[jmenges]

Thanks Debs.
Yes for the record the examples I used of parts of the book based on message board research are ones I thought of on my own. I've not personally heard or read of anyone complaining and I don't want to give the impression that I have.
Casebook.org has, I believe, in the past been approached by authors who wished to quote verbatim, full posts and articles, from this website and- as long as the author of said post has given permission- then Casebook.org would normally give their permission. I admit not knowing exactly how the Terms of Service for Casebook and other message boards come into play when under usual circumstances it is appropriate and allowed for message board research to appear in a book properly cited.

JM

[Debra A]

Thanks Debs.
Yes for the record the examples I used of parts of the book based on message board research are ones I thought of on my own. I've not personally heard or read of anyone complaining and I don't want to give the impression that I have.
Casebook.org has, I believe, in the past been approached by authors who wished to quote verbatim, full posts and articles, from this website and- as long as the author of said post has given permission- then Casebook.org would normally give their permission. I admit not knowing exactly how the Terms of Service for Casebook and other message boards come into play when under usual circumstances it is appropriate and allowed for message board research to appear in a book properly cited.

JM

It was a very interesting subject you broached, Jonathon and I'm very glad you asked the question because I have often wondered about how other researchers feel about authors using the research they have freely posted to the boards.
It's slightly different when an author gets in touch and you give them permission to use your research but Paul Williams referenced message board finds and posts individually, which not only allows readers to check a source but gives that researcher due credit.
Do researchers regard a general mention in the acknowledgements as good as a direct reference for a specific piece of research I wonder?

[PaulWilliams]

It was an interesting question and discussion. When someone finds a source of information and shares it on the forums, anyone else can then locate that source and cite it directly. However they would not know that it existed, without the post so some acknowledgment is surely due.

[jmenges]

One of the unavoidable drawbacks of using message board posts is when the poster is using an alias. The book cites posts by AP Wolf (author of 'Jack the Myth') and in other places cites posts by 'Captain Jack'. 'Captain Jack' is also AP Wolf, but one wouldn't know that without knowing the boards. Stewart P. Evans was using the message board name 'Gideon Fell' for awhile. A reader might recognize the name of Stewart P. Evans and consider it a pretty reliable source while having no idea who 'Gideon Fell' is. Nothing can be done to change this reality, I just found it interesting.

JM

[PaulWilliams]

That's a good point but if we know or discover who a poster really is should we respect the fact that they have chosen to use an alias, when referencing them?

[Sam Flynn]

That's a good point but if we know or discover who a poster really is should we respect the fact that they have chosen to use an alias, when referencing them?

I've sometimes been by an author wanting to cite my posts if they should use my message-board alias or not. I usually tell them to go ahead and use my real name, which is Karen Trenouth.


(Only kidding! That's a joke for Jon Menges' benefit )

[jmenges]

I've sometimes been by an author wanting to cite my posts if they should use my message-board alias or not. I usually tell them to go ahead and use my real name, which is Karen Trenouth.

Now if your real name was Paul Webb then it would get really confusing.

JM

[Mayerling]

Actually I have felt it was just as well to post it here as anywhere - except that here it might stimulate interest and use.

Living in the U.S., and being physically (at least currently) at a point of difficulty with real travelling, I find that my attempts at research are frequently curtailed - so that if I wish to reveal an idea here I hope somebody in a better position to look into it will do so. It would be nice if they would recall where the idea sprouted from, but even so if they make it give off any result is (in my opinion) even better, and worth the sacrifice.

Jeff

[PaulB]

I've sometimes been by an author wanting to cite my posts if they should use my message-board alias or not. I usually tell them to go ahead and use my real name, which is Karen Trenouth.


(Only kidding! That's a joke for Jon Menges' benefit )

You can't pretend you're joking, Karen. Your secret is out now.

[Herlock Sholmes]

When i first joined the Casebook, for no reason at all, i found myself referring to ‘Sam’ as ‘she’ until i was corrected by Abby i believe

[Sam Flynn]

You can't pretend you're joking, Karen. Your secret is out now.

Curses! I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those pesky kids!

[Elamarna]

Hi all
The question of using information from forums and online in general is indeed interesting to say the lesst.

I beleive so long as the original researcher is credited there should be no issue if it's just a passing mention, if the research is on an public site that is!

However in my up coming work on Bucks Row, anything more than a passing comment, as resulted in my asking for permission to quote, and being the people we are none have objected.
Indeed in the modern age of interactive Ebooks, links to any site not behind a paywall require no permission at all according to the European Court of Justice.
Of course it's best to link directly to the site and not place the content in a frame.

My own research on Casebook and on JtR Forums I Am more than happy for others to use as long as they mention me. Indeed that was the aim.

I guess my view is if it's on a public forum it's asking to be used in this day and age.
For good or ill technology has already made copyright somewhat unenforceable.
If something can be displayed on a screen it can be copied.
Such of course could be detrimental to future research, for that reason we need to be responsible and all serious authors should I beleive ask for permission even if it's not strictly required by law.
Paul I note in his impressive work gives full credit to each source.


Steve

[Steadmund Brand]

I have used Casebook and the like for research in the past, but when I have I have always contacted the poster asking permission, and if they do not respond I didn't use it..

I have also had my own research taken and used without being asked, I chalk it up to my own fault for publicly posting something, but still think it's unethical at best

Steadmund Brand