American Ripper - TV documentary series

[Herlock Sholmes]

I've watched 3 episodes so far, all late at night so I did 'nod off' for a few seconds. I saw Stewart Evans who didn't endorse Holmes but just gave the benefit of his knowledge. If Paul was in it I may have missed it or it's in a later episode?

Not exactly unbiased are they?

Holmes possibly 'mistaken' for Tumblety!

Americanisms in the letters but no mention that most people (even senior police officers at the time) believe them to be hoaxes!

Holmes pseudonyms on ships manifests when it would be more surprising if those names couldn't be found!

It all smacks of desperation to me.

[Trevor Marriott]

Who do you have in mind? Did anyone endorse H.H. Holmes as the Ripper?

No, but some presented misleading Ripper facts didnt they ?

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Pcdunn]

I got caught up with the final episode tonight. Holmes' grave was exhumed and proved to be quite a puzzle box (almost an "Oak Island" treasure hunt), with two false caskets buried atop the real one containing the murderer's body.
Aside here-- given what Holmes knew of the body-snatching game and insurance hoaxes, I can definitely see him leaving detailed instructions for his burial, as well as the cash to secure they were followed.
DNA tests matched Mudgett, so we know Holmes did die at the end of a rope, and wasn't responsible for the so-called "Holmes curse" nor other Ripper-like killings.

Mudgett, however, is still hoping for the JtR angle. I foresee a second season , alas.

[peg&pie]

I got the impression the interviews with noted ripperologists were heavily edited to seem more favourable, or at least not completely destructive to their theory's.

What's with digging up the 1872 fake picture of Eddowes and claiming it to be authentic. Did I miss something a while back ?

You need to watch this series with a clear understanding of it's intent. That is entertainment. I can watch it on that level. If you try to take it seriously your blood will boil!

[PaulB]

No, but some presented misleading Ripper facts didnt they ?

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

I don't know, Trevor. Did they? Who are you talking about? What misleading information did "they" present? How did it do their reputation or the reputation of Ripperology no good? I haven't had the opportunity to watch the whole series, so I'm wondering what I should watch for that led you to be critical of Ripper authorities and specifically which ones you meant.

[Trevor Marriott]

I don't know, Trevor. Did they? Who are you talking about? What misleading information did "they" present? How did it do their reputation or the reputation of Ripperology no good? I haven't had the opportunity to watch the whole series, so I'm wondering what I should watch for that led you to be critical of Ripper authorities and specifically which ones you meant.

No names. no pack drill, they know who they are, as do all those who watched it. I am afraid I am not like you, I am not into character assassinations.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[PaulB]

No names. no pack drill, they know who they are, as do all those who watched it. I am afraid I am not like you, I am not into character assassinations.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Trevor,
Straight in with the rudeness, I see.

How do you know the experts who appeared on the show know who they are?

I haven’t seen anyone who’s watched the show be critical of any Ripper authorities, so I’m not sure they know who you ae talking about either.

Yes you are into character assassination. What do you think writing, “And some of the Ripperologists used in this debacle, have also not done themselves, or ripperology any favours” is? It's character assassination. Quite a few authorities appeared on the television programme and you are leaving your allegation hanging over all of them. It is therefore only fair that you be asked to be specific about who you mean and why you think their appearance hasn’t done Ripperology any favours. At least those people would then have the opportunity fess up, explain themselves, or possibly even refute your allegation.

[Trevor Marriott]

Trevor,
Straight in with the rudeness, I see.

How do you know the experts who appeared on the show know who they are?

I haven’t seen anyone who’s watched the show be critical of any Ripper authorities, so I’m not sure they know who you ae talking about either.

Yes you are into character assassination. What do you think writing, “And some of the Ripperologists used in this debacle, have also not done themselves, or ripperology any favours” is? It's character assassination. Quite a few authorities appeared on the television programme and you are leaving your allegation hanging over all of them. It is therefore only fair that you be asked to be specific about who you mean and why you think their appearance hasn’t done Ripperology any favours. At least those people would then have the opportunity fess up, explain themselves, or possibly even refute your allegation.

What I wrote did not name any names. So how can that be classed as character assassination, and I am my own master, I do and say what I want not, what you tell me to do. I am entitled to my own opinion as is everyone else, and if that doesn't sit well with you then thats tough.

If you haven't seen all the episodes then I would suggest you take time to view them all, then you will no doubt have the answers to your own questions

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[PaulB]

What I wrote did not name any names. So how can that be classed as character assassination, and I am my own master, I do and say what I want not, what you tell me to do. I am entitled to my own opinion as is everyone else, and if that doesn't sit well with you then thats tough.

If you haven't seen all the episodes then I would suggest you take time to view them all, then you will no doubt have the answers to your own questions

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Never mind, Trevor. Not having seen any authority on the television programme say or do anything to bring themselves or this subject into disrepute, and not having seen anyone else level that accusation, I thought you might be able to enlighten me. When someone makes an allegation it is reasonable to expect them to substantiate it if asked to do so, but it seems to be beyond your capacity to do that.

Instead you have to be rude, falsely accuse me of indulging in character assassination, and wander off into nonsense about not having to do or say what I tell you, being entitled to your own opinions, and so forth. Sheesh, all I asked was for you to justify something you said. But if you won't or probably can't do that. Fine. No problems.

As a quick aside, some people might conclude that not naming names is an unsavoury tactic used by some to imply something about people who they lack the chutzpah to name, but I think this sort of nebulous allegation is simply unfair. It hangs the allegation over the head of everyone who appeared on the television programme, and it doesn't give those to whom it does apply the opportunity to offer an explanation. There is also the possibility that the person not naming names is simply trying to maliciously and unjustifiably malign the authorities who appeared on the programme. I am not suggesting anything like that in this case, of course, but clarity would instantly dispell the thought from the heads of those who might have thought it.

And to the very best of my knowledge I have never maliciously harmed the reputation of a good person (the definition of "character assassination", I believe). So, unless you can name an instance where I have done this, it would be the right and decent thing to withdraw your statement.

[PaulB]

I got the impression the interviews with noted ripperologists were heavily edited to seem more favourable, or at least not completely destructive to their theory's.

What's with digging up the 1872 fake picture of Eddowes and claiming it to be authentic. Did I miss something a while back ?

You need to watch this series with a clear understanding of it's intent. That is entertainment. I can watch it on that level. If you try to take it seriously your blood will boil!

Do you mean the fake picture of Stride? That was wonderful. Daniel Olsson, in Ripperologist, 141, December 2014, published the full photograph, which had been sold on eBay by an elderly gentleman. It was of his Southampton-resident great-grandmother, Catherine, a sometime dressmaker’s model. So they found a photograph in that box allegeldly Holmes's, which had a 64% match to a dressmakers model named Catherine who lived in Southampton. What, I wonder, does that say for that whole technique of photo matching?

[Trevor Marriott]

And to the very best of my knowledge I have never maliciously harmed the reputation of a good person (the definition of "character assassination", I believe. So, unless you can name an instance where I have done this, it would be the right and decent thing to withdraw your statement.

You have a very short memory then.

And I am going to withdraw nothing.

But lets not disrupt this thread with what everyone here knows are personal issues between you and I.

Every dog has his day !

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Hunter]

Do you mean the fake picture of Stride? That was wonderful. Daniel Olsson, in Ripperologist, 141, December 2014, published the full photograph, which had been sold on eBay by an elderly gentleman. It was of his Southampton-resident great-grandmother, Catherine, a sometime dressmaker’s model. So they found a photograph in that box allegeldly Holmes's, which had a 64% match to a dressmakers model named Catherine who lived in Southampton. What, I wonder, does that say for that whole technique of photo matching?

Hi Paul,

If one of the samples is incorrect, whether the technique is valid or not is void? Although my supposition would be that such techniques as demonstrated here would suffer from confirmation bias, especially in the presence of the party in question.

[PaulB]

You have a very short memory then.

And I am going to withdraw nothing.

But lets not disrupt this thread with what everyone here knows are personal issues between you and I.

Every dog has his day !

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

There is noting wrong with my memory. Not yet, anyway. Touch wood. You just can't answer a direct question though, can you?

I have no personal issues with you, Trevor. I never have. I never will.

I just wanted the answer to a question. I thought you'd answer it - everything sone and dusted in two posts. But you can't answer it. You squirm a bit, get rude, throw out a few more accusations you can't substantiate... Par for the course, I suppose, but I very happy to let the thread continue without more of this stuff.

[Trevor Marriott]

There is noting wrong with my memory. Not yet, anyway. Touch wood. You just can't answer a direct question though, can you?

I have no personal issues with you, Trevor. I never have. I never will.

I just wanted the answer to a question. I thought you'd answer it - everything sone and dusted in two posts. But you can't answer it. You squirm a bit, get rude, throw out a few more accusations you can't substantiate... Par for the course, I suppose, but I very happy to let the thread continue without more of this stuff.

As I said, those who have viewed the series will make up their own minds and judge those who participated, and what they said, including your contribution.

There is only one person who has a history of squirming, and its not me, could it be you?

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Steadmund Brand]

OK, OK I admit... I am the one who has not done themselves, or Ripperology any favors.....wait... no, it couldn't be me.. I wasn't in this one.... phew I feel better now...

Steadmund Brand